Continued: Lutz mentions engine options for Camaro -- 4 cylinder turbo a possibility

[Dark Eric]

This is crap, leave the 2.0 liter in the Soltice and stop being cheap, I guess its another way to charge $45,000+ for a standard V8 Camaro. The 2.0 liter turbo 4 cylinder will NOT help gas mileage, look at the Lancer Evolution, it gets only 16-18mpg city. How much does the Soltice get in the city 20mpg? The Camaro (thanks to the length [approx 30 inches longer], bigger gas tank and backseats) will be heavier than the Soltice, thus defeating the advantage even more. The Soltice only weighs 2,976 lbs the Camaro could weigh well over 3,300+ lbs.

Per edmunds.com for Pontiac Soltice 2.0 liter Turbo:


Fuel Tank Capacity: 13 gal.; EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 26 mpg; Range in Miles: 247 mi. / 338 mi. EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 28 mpg; Range in Miles: 247 mi. / 364 mi. More


Thats no better than the standard 4th generation Camaro V6!

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/pont...chlanding.html

I could see if they promised 23mpg+ in the city.

[Scotsman]

Originally Posted by Dark Eric

This is crap, leave the 2.0 liter in the Soltice and stop being cheap, I guess its another way to charge $45,000+ for a standard V8 Camaro. The 2.0 liter turbo 4 cylinder will NOT help gas mileage, look at the Lancer Evolution, it gets only 16-18mpg city. How much does the Soltice get in the city 20mpg? The Camaro (thanks to the length [approx 30 inches longer], bigger gas tank and backseats) will be heavier than the Soltice, thus defeating the advantage even more. The Soltice only weighs 2,976 lbs the Camaro could weigh well over 3,300+ lbs.

Per edmunds.com for Pontiac Soltice 2.0 liter Turbo:


Fuel Tank Capacity: 13 gal.; EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 26 mpg; Range in Miles: 247 mi. / 338 mi. EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 28 mpg; Range in Miles: 247 mi. / 364 mi. More


Thats no better than the standard 4th generation Camaro V6!

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/pont...chlanding.html

I could see if they promised 23mpg+ in the city.

Are you a GM engineer? You have no ideas what other technologies GM might use in tandem with this engine configuration in a Zeta car, such as a 7 or 8 speed auto.

[Dark Eric]

Originally Posted by DerScotsman

Are you a GM engineer? You have no ideas what other technologies GM might use in tandem with this engine configuration in a Zeta car, such as a 7 or 8 speed auto.

Yea the key is might, as I said if its 23 mpg ok build it, but if you are going to give us a lousy 1-2 mpg difference over V8, possible 17/26 mpg at least with AFM, you might as well leave the 2.0 liters in the Soltice and Cobalt and buy that instead of a heavier Camaro. Even with 2 seats and a 400-500lb weight difference it only gets 19 mpg city and thats by EPA numbers. Not worth it in my opinion. Your opinion maybe different, but let me see if I can find V6s on edmunds that are heavier with more power that makes the same MPG. The soltice costs what $28,000 for Turbo, thats right in WRX and Lancer Territory. No way the Camaro can be less than the Soltice Turbo with better MPG and better styling.

Uh Oh, Camary LE weighs 400lbs more, it has 4 doors, a bigger 3.5 liter engine, more HP (268hp), 19/28 fuel economy and costs almost $5,000 less:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/toyo...chlanding.html

Camary LE V6 3.5L V6 Auto $23,640.

That extra $5000 could get you a supercharger or turbo installed if you wanted one.

If you ask me GM has a TON of work to do to make this 2.0 liter turbo 4 cylinder work in a manner that gives it more than just a 1 to 2 mpg difference than the V8, and they have to figure a way to sell it less than $28,000 otherwise they should just go with a V6 and get it over with.

And oh, I don't believe this, but the Enthusiast Manual V6 3.5 liter Nissan 350Z costs the same price as the Soltice 2.0 liter Turbo and gets only 1 MPG less in the city, yet adds OVER 40 more horses (306hp).

Enthusiast RWD 3.5L V6 Manual $29,820
Base RWD 3.5L V6 Manual $28,120

Please GM just put out the V6 and V8 and get manufacturing started soon! I'm hoping this is some sick joke to take the subject off the Camaro SS and get us talking about something that may not be possible til the year 2015 or later. Either that or promise our Fbody breathern a 2.0 liter Turbo that gets 22 to 23 mpg city with over 260hp at a reasonable price that doesn't make it look bad in the segment!

[JaysonAych]

Originally Posted by Dark Eric

Per edmunds.com for Pontiac Soltice 2.0 liter Turbo:


Fuel Tank Capacity: 13 gal.; EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 26 mpg; Range in Miles: 247 mi. / 338 mi. EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 28 mpg; Range in Miles: 247 mi. / 364 mi. More


Thats no better than the standard 4th generation Camaro V6!

Also, keep in mind that the above specs are for a convertible. Even with the top up, the rag top and the gaps that come with it are going to create more aerodynamic drag than a fixed flush-fitted hardtop. According to Edmunds, that same motor in the Cobalt SS gets 22/30.

[Justin]

Personally I would say if GM can get decent performance and fuel economy out of an I4 in the Camaro, I see no reason not to offer it. It'll help with meeting CAFE standards, it'll give us an even cheaper base Camaro, and I think if the gas mileage is good enough, it'll steal quite a few sales away from foreign car makers, as well as the crowd looking for American muscle.

Not only that, but if they're gearing this car at the younger crowd, a cheaper Camaro isn't a bad thing at all, because you have to look at the fact that kids don't have a whole lot of money, and something that's cheaper to buy and put gas in, as well as being incredibly sexy will certainly be attractive.

Edit: And it's not like GM said they were replacing the V8 with an I4. It's simply another option that they're considering.

[juSStin4171]

Would any one here have been upset, if in 2002 GM offered a 4 cyl in a CAMARO and we all could have had 03's or 05's or 08's today? Not me. More Camaro's sold = less mustangs we have to look at in our travels from the back of the parking lot to the stores we shop. OPTIONS... more is more here people.

oh, and one more thing. Do you really expect to get a car as nice, new, cutting edge design, power and handling, with exceptional V8 roar, six speeds and mustang and challenger embarrasing performance for less than a G8? Lets be realistic. You get what you pay for.

[Omega94]

Originally Posted by juSStin4171

oh, and one more thing. Do you really expect to get a car as nice, new, cutting edge design, power and handling, with exceptional V8 roar, six speeds and mustang and challenger embarrasing performance for less than a G8? Lets be realistic. You get what you pay for.

I'd say that most of us can expect that seeing as how we've been told things along those lines all along. For at least a year now, we've been told that the Camaro has to remain an affordable sports/muscle/pony car in order for it to survive. Would you disagree with that?? We've been told that it will be priced closely to a similarly optioned Mustang...that comes in a couple thousand below a G8 GT. Personally, I think it is realistic...because we've been told to expect that. And between you and me...and every other potential Camaro owner...the "entry level V8" Camaro (whatever you want to call it, be it 'base' or what...) needs to come in below the G8 GT or it will go on a permanent 'hiatus'. I'm not going to predict exact prices like others have done but you can be sure that the new Camaro has to be affordable...and that is realistic.

I know that there are many guys/girls who, like me, are in the same boat. The "entry level V8" is what we are hoping to get because that is what we'll be able to afford. If GM prices the Camaro too high (they already know this...) they will put it out of the reach of the people who are going to make the new Camaro possible. Does that makes sense?? (I only ask because I don't think I got the wording right) It's the masses, the middle-class, that they need to buy this car. I mean, please, correct me if I'm wrong...but this is not the Corvette...this is not the Ford GT...or the Viper. This is not going to be a limited production car. Granted, I'm sure we'll see a Hi-Po Camaro that will be more expensive...what Camaro-lovers have coined the 'GT500 killer'...but again, if that's in line with the GT500...you KNOW it will be priced accordingly...The moral of the story is that everyone needs to understand that the Camaro must be priced 'right' to survive. Once again...it is realistic...I have faith...always have

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Omega94

I'd say that most of us can expect that seeing as how we've been told things along those lines all along. For at least a year now, we've been told that the Camaro has to remain an affordable sports/muscle/pony car in order for it to survive. Would you disagree with that?? We've been told that it will be priced closely to a similarly optioned Mustang...that comes in a couple thousand below a G8 GT. Personally, I think it is realistic...because we've been told to expect that. And between you and me...and every other potential Camaro owner...the "entry level V8" Camaro (whatever you want to call it, be it 'base' or what...) needs to come in below the G8 GT or it will go on a permanent 'hiatus'. I'm not going to predict exact prices like others have done but you can be sure that the new Camaro has to be affordable...and that is realistic.

I know that there are many guys/girls who, like me, are in the same boat. The "entry level V8" is what we are hoping to get because that is what we'll be able to afford. If GM prices the Camaro too high (they already know this...) they will put it out of the reach of the people who are going to make the new Camaro possible. Does that makes sense?? (I only ask because I don't think I got the wording right) It's the masses, the middle-class, that they need to buy this car. I mean, please, correct me if I'm wrong...but this is not the Corvette...this is not the Ford GT...or the Viper. This is not going to be a limited production car. Granted, I'm sure we'll see a Hi-Po Camaro that will be more expensive...what Camaro-lovers have coined the 'GT500 killer'...but again, if that's in line with the GT500...you KNOW it will be priced accordingly...The moral of the story is that everyone needs to understand that the Camaro must be priced 'right' to survive. Once again...it is realistic...I have faith...always have

[stovt001]

I agree that the Camaro has to be priced below the G8. If I can get a great V8 engine, RWD, the great Zeta chassis, AND way more room and plenty of luxury features for less money, I'd take the G8 without a second though.

[Dark Eric]

Originally Posted by JaysonAych

Also, keep in mind that the above specs are for a convertible. Even with the top up, the rag top and the gaps that come with it are going to create more aerodynamic drag than a fixed flush-fitted hardtop. According to Edmunds, that same motor in the Cobalt SS gets 22/30.

I see, I will examine it. So why buy the Camaro, for the styling? Also lets not forget the Camaro version will be RWD, oh well, well see what happens. If they can get at least the 22/30 as stated in the above link, then build it. but if they only going to offer 19/26 forget it. Thanks.

[jims69camaro]

Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo

Hell, I don't even think adding a Supercharger instead of a Turbo will make it any better. And superchargers seem to be more appropriate for the car.

it depends on the application and what exactly you are trying to do. turbos are fine in certain applications and superchargers work well in others. seems straightforward to me.

Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen

they need to just stay away from anything less than 6 cylinders. hell do an in line 6 for all i care but no 4ycylinders. that car will be the laughing stock of the muscle cars.

its just UN-AMERICAN.

no. un-american is spending your american dollars on foreign made whatever. your dollars leave the U.S. and support other countries and their manufacturers. trade is way out of hand - they import much more than we export to them, so spending your money on a japanese or korean vehicle is un-american. i hope there aren't any of those people here.

Originally Posted by radz282003

Iron headed LT1s of not too long ago where "only" rated at 260 horse...

L98s were only around 240...

Four-banger mileage, when you can stay out of the turbo, doesn't sound too bad too me. I just wonder why GM doesn't stick with one power adder (i.e. supercharge everything or turbocharge everything.) SCs on 6.2s and turbos on I-4s - why?...

see above.

Originally Posted by EllwynX

The 'premium' comment had me worried initially. But upon further thought, the Camaro will be a nicer package all around over the Mustang.

Also, all along it was stated the Camaro would be within a few hundred dollars of a comparable Mustang. I'm sure most of us assumed $500-$1000. So now it looks like it could possibly be $1500-$2000 more.

Is that really that big a deal?

no.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

They've had 4 bangers before in Camaros. Seems it hasn't left much of an impression on enthusiasts, we all still desperately want a new Camaro.

ah, the days of the good ol' Iron Duke...

Originally Posted by Maddog78

I never expected this car to be as cheap as a Mustang. I'll gladly pay a couple of g's more for a better car.

betchurass.

i was also worried about the premium statement:
“We are going to be above Mustang,” Lutz said. “We have a very sophisticated suspension system and, frankly, a much nicer interior. We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.”

above mustang, sophisticated suspension, much nicer interior. premium priced? i'll buy that. see, the thing that makes me worry the most is when people go off half-cocked and start saying the camaro is un-american and what the hell are they thinking about putting a wee 4 cylinder in my muscle car?

i've got news for you: i am not thinking about a 4-cylinder engine. i would never think about a 4-cylinder engine in anything i own. well, ok, maybe my lawnmower. i want performance. i want plant-me-in-the-seat acceleration. while the 4-cylinder with a turbo may be a nice motor and might serve to keep the camaro nameplate alive, i would never consider one. so stop whining about the 4-cylinder motor. as long as the order sheet includes a 400-hp V8, then i have no worries in the world.

[jims69camaro]

one last thought: have you ever heard of someone buying a 6-cylinder camaro and stuffing a big block in it? sure you have. so, let them build the 4-cylinder cars. and the 6-cylinder cars. we'll stuff big blocks in 'em in 20 years.

[edbrick]

This car will not compete with the Mustang as far as sales.100,000units a year yeah right not in this economy. If they price this thing too high I will have to look at the Vett.

[swazworth]

Originally Posted by jims69camaro

i've got news for you: i am not thinking about a 4-cylinder engine. i would never think about a 4-cylinder engine in anything i own. well, ok, maybe my lawnmower. i want performance. i want plant-me-in-the-seat acceleration. while the 4-cylinder with a turbo may be a nice motor and might serve to keep the camaro nameplate alive, i would never consider one. so stop whining about the 4-cylinder motor. as long as the order sheet includes a 400-hp V8, then i have no worries in the world.

do you think i could put turbo on that?? i want a 240hp turbo lawnmower, and can i get that as a push or does it only come in a ride?