F-Body?

[SSRS1LE]

I vote the next "exception" to VIN coding-convention should be to give the coming Alpha Platform Camaro a "P" designation.

That way folks can argue that their Camaro is a pickup-truck. "Says so right there in the VIN!"

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by Rocky1974

Yeah, I see what you mean. There's absolutely nothing defensive about you at all. And you call other people OCD?

Yeah, I do call other people OCD, because I'm not the one worrying about what letter is on my VIN. The F body name came from the cars being on the GM F platform. It is no longer on said platform. Therefore, I don't care what my VIN says, it's not a true F body.

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by KarFan

Zeta is actually E Vehicle Line/Series not F. But I believe the Camaro team actually sought to have E VIN code changed to F to further designate the Camaro and for a nostalgic link back the to previous generations. This part of the explanation seems to be missing. . .

Obviously some people actually care as seen in this thread and so it seems to have been worth it. But really for the sake of accuracy the correct answer is the 5th Gen Camaro is a F Vehicle Line/Series. Calling it an F-body wouldn't be correct enough for the sake of semantics with the current nomenclature.

This should make for an interesting conversation the next time someone says the 5th Gen isn't an F-body and the response is it's an F-Series! Should raise some eyebrows...

This.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by unkillsam

Your wrong.

Your assuming that a Nameplate (Camaro) always has the same "body" designation.

Using the Impala as a perfect example, it went from being a B-Body to a W-Body when it switched platforms in 2000.

67-02 the platform was tweaked and upgraded but the bare bones remained the same, that's why it was an F-Body.

2010+ Camaro is an E-body using GM nomenclature, the Camaro team fought and won to have the F put in the VIN code to make people like you feel good.

Nobody fought to have the B kept in the Impala VIN, probably because they did not want to be seen with that car.

And this brings up a couple of other points --

The Impala went from a "B" Body (ending in 1996 with the Caprice as well) to a "W" Body - BUT -- the 2000 Impala was still a GM-10 architecture.

THAT is why it went to "W" -- further, it went from RWD to FWD.

Someone said the new Camaro is an "E" body - well, at one time, the El Dorado, Toronado, and Riviera were "E" bodies - but I would not say that they have much in common with a Camaro or a Firebird...........

I suppose we could talk about this until the cows come home -

but Team Camaro sees the importance and significance of "F-body" and that's why the "F" is in the VIN.

Yes - It's Zeta II -

it's also GMX-521 and GMX-511 --

it's also an "F-car"........


Now - Mikey -

--500 times:

"I will not argue! It's a F-body!"

- in cursive, please......

blue-black fountain pen........!

(....a quill pen is acceptable, but that's a definite "NO!" to felt-tip or ball-point.......)

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

Yeah, I do call other people OCD, because I'm not the one worrying about what letter is on my VIN. The F body name came from the cars being on the GM F platform. It is no longer on said platform. Therefore, I don't care what my VIN says, it's not a true F body.

You're not worried about it!!?? In your last post, you were so worried about it that you were threating to change the "F" in your VIN to an "A"! Which I'm pretty sure would make you not only OCD, but also a criminal. You'd better get busy. That 500 times thing for the F-Bod Father is going to take you a while and if you keep arguing about this, he'll probably up it to 1000.

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

And this brings up a couple of other points --

The Impala went from a "B" Body (ending in 1996 with the Caprice as well) to a "W" Body - BUT -- the 2000 Impala was still a GM-10 architecture.

THAT is why it went to "W" -- further, it went from RWD to FWD.

Someone said the new Camaro is an "E" body - well, at one time, the El Dorado, Toronado, and Riviera were "E" bodies - but I would not say that they have much in common with a Camaro or a Firebird...........

I suppose we could talk about this until the cows come home -

but Team Camaro sees the importance and significance of "F-body" and that's why the "F" is in the VIN.

Yes - It's Zeta II -

it's also GMX-521 and GMX-511 --

it's also an "F-car"........


Now - Mikey -

--500 times:

"I will not argue! It's a F-body!"

- in cursive, please......

blue-black fountain pen........!

(....a quill pen is acceptable, but that's a definite "NO!" to felt-tip or ball-point.......)

I love it!

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by Rocky1974

You're not worried about it!!?? In your last post, you were so worried about it that you were threating to change the "F" in your VIN to an "A"! Which I'm pretty sure would make you not only OCD, but also a criminal. You'd better get busy. That 500 times thing for the F-Bod Father is going to take you a while and if you keep arguing about this, he'll probably up it to 1000.

Yep, I was SOOOO serious about changing my VIN and calling it a Chevelle. You're so mad you can't even see the sarcasm. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Just because it has an F doesn't mean it's a true F body. That's my argument and I'm sticking to it.

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

And this brings up a couple of other points --

The Impala went from a "B" Body (ending in 1996 with the Caprice as well) to a "W" Body - BUT -- the 2000 Impala was still a GM-10 architecture.

THAT is why it went to "W" -- further, it went from RWD to FWD.

Someone said the new Camaro is an "E" body - well, at one time, the El Dorado, Toronado, and Riviera were "E" bodies - but I would not say that they have much in common with a Camaro or a Firebird...........

I suppose we could talk about this until the cows come home -

but Team Camaro sees the importance and significance of "F-body" and that's why the "F" is in the VIN.

Yes - It's Zeta II -

it's also GMX-521 and GMX-511 --

it's also an "F-car"........


Now - Mikey -

--500 times:

"I will not argue! It's a F-body!"

- in cursive, please......

blue-black fountain pen........!

(....a quill pen is acceptable, but that's a definite "NO!" to felt-tip or ball-point.......)

NEVER!!!!!

[unkillsam]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

And this brings up a couple of other points --

The Impala went from a "B" Body (ending in 1996 with the Caprice as well) to a "W" Body - BUT -- the 2000 Impala was still a GM-10 architecture.

THAT is why it went to "W" -- further, it went from RWD to FWD.

Someone said the new Camaro is an "E" body - well, at one time, the El Dorado, Toronado, and Riviera were "E" bodies - but I would not say that they have much in common with a Camaro or a Firebird...........

I suppose we could talk about this until the cows come home -

but Team Camaro sees the importance and significance of "F-body" and that's why the "F" is in the VIN.

Yes - It's Zeta II -

it's also GMX-521 and GMX-511 --

it's also an "F-car"........


Now - Mikey -

--500 times:

"I will not argue! It's a F-body!"

- in cursive, please......

blue-black fountain pen........!

(....a quill pen is acceptable, but that's a definite "NO!" to felt-tip or ball-point.......)

F-Bod father I am not calling you out but using your logic the imported Chevy Caprice PPV should be a B-body but according to the vin codes it's a M-Body.

It's a full sized RWD 4 door sedan just like the 96 Caprice, just on different architecture.

But, it's not a B-Body is it. Just like every other GM car has lost their "body" designation once the platforms have changed. Camaro only retained F-Body status because of enthusiasts.

1997 Malibu was a N-Body. Once it switched to modified Epsilon in 2004 it was no longer an N-Body, despite still being Chevrolet's mid-size FWD sedan, with similar styling.

Seriously, I truly respect you and everything that you do, but please don't pretend that the F-designation in the Camaro vin was done for anything other then nostalgic reasons.

No other GM nameplate get's this treatment.

Y-body used to be be a Buick Skylark or Pontiac Tempest, now it's the Corvette.

I have many more examples to throw out there.

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by unkillsam

F-Bod father I am not calling you out but using your logic the imported Chevy Caprice PPV should be a B-body but according to the vin codes it's a M-Body.

It's a full sized RWD 4 door sedan just like the 96 Caprice, just on different architecture.

But, it's not a B-Body is it. Just like every other GM car has lost their "body" designation once the platforms have changed. Camaro only retained F-Body status because of enthusiasts.

1997 Malibu was a N-Body. Once it switched to modified Epsilon in 2004 it was no longer an N-Body, despite still being Chevrolet's mid-size FWD sedan, with similar styling.

Seriously, I truly respect you and everything that you do, but please don't pretend that the F-designation in the Camaro vin was done for anything other then nostalgic reasons.

No other GM nameplate get's this treatment.

Y-body used to be be a Buick Skylark or Pontiac Tempest, now it's the Corvette.

I have many more examples to throw out there.

This is what I'm trying to get at.

[unkillsam]

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

This is what I'm trying to get at.

Not to mention the fact that the "BODY" has always been tied to an architecture.

Cimarron, Sunfire, Cavalier, all J-Bodies

So using the logic of the Camaro as an F-Body, it then stands to logic that the ZETA Chevy SS is an F-Body as well.

Secondly the Body has nothing to do with RWD vs FWD, see the GM A-bodies.

GM designs an architecture and assigns a Body designation to it. There is something amiss here as the Camaro shares the same platform with other vehicles but does not share the body designation.

Should the Firebird not have been a F-Body? Or was it ok because it was badge engineered product?

[tonyko1]

Originally Posted by unkillsam

Not to mention the fact that the "BODY" has always been tied to an architecture.

Cimarron, Sunfire, Cavalier, all J-Bodies

So using the logic of the Camaro as an F-Body, it then stands to logic that the ZETA Chevy SS is an F-Body as well.

Secondly the Body has nothing to do with RWD vs FWD, see the GM A-bodies.

GM designs an architecture and assigns a Body designation to it. There is something amiss here as the Camaro shares the same platform with other vehicles but does not share the body designation.

Should the Firebird not have been a F-Body? Or was it ok because it was badge engineered product?

************************************************** ***********

So you are saying just the Firebirds are F body? F for Firebird, makes sense. Thanks for clearing that all up, what a mess!

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

Yep, I was SOOOO serious about changing my VIN and calling it a Chevelle. You're so mad you can't even see the sarcasm. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Just because it has an F doesn't mean it's a true F body. That's my argument and I'm sticking to it.

I'm mad!!!???? You've been the one who through this whole thread, can't take a joke. What would I have to be mad about? I started this thread to prove a point, and I won. You're the one who keeps insisting that you're right, even though you've been proven wrong. I've tried to poke fun at you to get you to lighten up, but you're just not having any of that. Listen, I could really care less whither you call your car a F-Body or not, but now you know it really is one, and you can thank me for that. You may still try to tell people that it's not an F-Body, but in your heart you'll know that it really is one.

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by unkillsam

F-Bod father I am not calling you out but using your logic the imported Chevy Caprice PPV should be a B-body but according to the vin codes it's a M-Body.

It's a full sized RWD 4 door sedan just like the 96 Caprice, just on different architecture.

But, it's not a B-Body is it. Just like every other GM car has lost their "body" designation once the platforms have changed. Camaro only retained F-Body status because of enthusiasts.

1997 Malibu was a N-Body. Once it switched to modified Epsilon in 2004 it was no longer an N-Body, despite still being Chevrolet's mid-size FWD sedan, with similar styling.

Seriously, I truly respect you and everything that you do, but please don't pretend that the F-designation in the Camaro vin was done for anything other then nostalgic reasons.

No other GM nameplate get's this treatment.

Y-body used to be be a Buick Skylark or Pontiac Tempest, now it's the Corvette.

I have many more examples to throw out there.

Yeah, but there's something that everybody seems to be forgetting. I've been on this site for years and I've heard every argument about why the 5th Gen Camaro couldn't possibly be a F-Body. It's on a Zeta platform. It was never intended to be a F-Body. It wasn't engineered to be a F-Body. The F-Bod Father said it wasn't a F-Body. The engineers said it wasn't a F-Body. Yada,Yada,Yada. But here's the thing. On that first day in 2009, when that first one rolled off of the end of the line with that "F" in it's VIN, it was a F-Body. By definition. At that point all those reasons became footnotes. Maybe it wasn't intended to be a F-Body, but in the end, GM decided to put that "F" in the VIN, Making it a F-Body. We can argue until the cows come home about how it got there, but no-one can argue it's not there. We can sit around in internet chat rooms and argue that maybe it shouldn't be there, but it is. In the end it's GM that makes these decisions and maybe they don't always follow the rules, but that's ok too. After all, it's their rules. So I guess they can break them if they want too. I'm just glad they're still around to build us these really cool cars. And when that 6th Gen comes out, maybe it won't have a "F" in it's VIN, but I kind of hope it does.