Camaro Z28 rumors dampened by Bob Lutz, G8 will (update: NOT) survive

[S8ER01Z]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I didn't think about that.. The Z28 last generation was the middle performance car while the SS was top dog.

You mean by marketing standpoints right?

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The Z28 would be introduced at about 29k~...and have that new FI 3800 V6 we've read about Maybe 350-400hp

I'm sure I am not alone here when I say I would rather leave the Z28 nameplate dead than see it packing a 3800 V6. The original Z28 wasn't packing weak power and it certainly wasn't a pushover like so many people want it to be.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by S8ER01Z

The original Z28 wasn't packing weak power and it certainly wasn't a pushover like so many people want it to be.

I said nothing of weak power. 350-400hp. There was a rumor thread recently, that I suspect you may have missed, about a possible FI V6. Probably with Direct Injection...A Forced Induction 6 cylinder...the likes of which can be found in Porches, Audis, BMWs, and the Nissan GTR...

To me, and perhaps only me; power, performance, and the car as a whole matter a whole helluva lot more than number of cylinders.

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Maximum Bob can say some crazy stuff. Time will tell...

Agreed if you look hard enough you will find quotes from him back in the early 2000's saying that the Camaro was dead for good.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

mm-hmm.

Let me elaborate a bit, though....

A possible scenario...The SS would move up in price point ever slightly...maybe a thousand bucks or so..and the LS3 would be bumped to ~450-460hp. The Z28 would be introduced at about 29k~...and have that new FI 3800 V6 we've read about Maybe 350-400hp. It would be an absolute track star even rivaling the Corvette (I assure you, it's possible).

Or maybe the Z28 should be priced higher than the SS...somewhere between a SS and a GT500....make use of the FI 3800...and make extensive use of aluminum, carbon fiber, and suspension upgrades to make it a Corvette-rivaling track star.

I'm sold as long as it can make use of VVT and DI technology.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

mm-hmm.

Let me elaborate a bit, though....

A possible scenario...The SS would move up in price point ever slightly...maybe a thousand bucks or so..and the LS3 would be bumped to ~450-460hp. The Z28 would be introduced at about 29k~...and have that new FI 3800 V6 we've read about Maybe 350-400hp. It would be an absolute track star even rivaling the Corvette (I assure you, it's possible).

Or maybe the Z28 should be priced higher than the SS...somewhere between a SS and a GT500....make use of the FI 3800...and make extensive use of aluminum, carbon fiber, and suspension upgrades to make it a Corvette-rivaling track star.

I just don't see the top scenario happening simply because the SS and Z28 would be too closely priced and competing against one another if it is that close in performance.. They need to be priced to compete against the Ford Mustang and currently the Camaro is higher priced than the 2010 GT Stang.. THe Camaro for the most part is outselling the Mustang the last two months but we all know that will taper off eventually once the "new look" faze/excitement wears out. The Mustang will once again take over the top spot in sales simply because the Mustang GT is priced lower than the Camaro SS.. That is why my theory above where the Z28 comes in at a lower price than the Mustang GT is a smarter one and one that could introduce the 6 cylinder and place it against the Stangs V8 in races... The V6 Maro would have to win some races against the GT and you have the opportunity to beat the Mustang GT at its own game.. The base Camaro at 300 HP can stay the same and be able to beat the 200HP V6 Stang but be priced slightly higher.. The looks of the Camaro V6 are what will keep that on top even though its a little more.. The other option would be to get rid of the V6 DI caddy engine entirely and replace it with a 4 cylinder that is just as fast and cheaper to produce with better gas mileage... That would be a geat lineup and one all of us can live with... So to recap a 4 cyl base Camaro, followed by a Z28 V6 priced lower than a GT yet faster...And then followed by an SS perhaps slightly stronger with a higher pricetag like you mention above..At least until the demise of the V8 :(

[Vash]

Performance wise I think it's a non issue. Just look at the packages out there and toys for later.

It's just a label and maybe some body parts. But nothing stops someone from building monsters even with warranty probably same to whatever a loaded Z28 would be priced at anyway.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Please redirect all Caprice/G8 posts to this thread:
Rumor: G8 = Caprice

Thank You.

[FRKNlo]

Originally Posted by Chevyrocker

<snip>
In his conversation with Automobile, Lutz also essentially confirms that next year's Cadillac CTS coupe will be joined by a V-series variant, saying that the CTS-V coupe was the car that had most of the Presidential Task Force members' tongues wagging during the product-pipeline tour they were given by GM. Lutz even hints that a CTS-V wagon is not completely out of the question. (We'll take the wagon in brown, with the stick, Bob.)
<snip>

This statement is a bit scary! Looks like the task force WILL be making the decisions for which cars are made.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I just don't see the top scenario happening simply because the SS and Z28 would be too closely priced and competing against one another if it is that close in performance.. They need to be priced to compete against the Ford Mustang and currently the Camaro is higher priced than the 2010 GT Stang.. THe Camaro for the most part is outselling the Mustang the last two months but we all know that will taper off eventually once the "new look" faze/excitement wears out. The Mustang will once again take over the top spot in sales simply because the Mustang GT is priced lower than the Camaro SS.. That is why my theory above where the Z28 comes in at a lower price than the Mustang GT is a smarter one and one that could introduce the 6 cylinder and place it against the Stangs V8 in races... The V6 Maro would have to win some races against the GT and you have the opportunity to beat the Mustang GT at its own game.. The base Camaro at 300 HP can stay the same and be able to beat the 200HP V6 Stang but be priced slightly higher.. The looks of the Camaro V6 are what will keep that on top even though its a little more.. The other option would be to get rid of the V6 DI caddy engine entirely and replace it with a 4 cylinder that is just as fast and cheaper to produce with better gas mileage... That would be a geat lineup and one all of us can live with... So to recap a 4 cyl base Camaro, followed by a Z28 V6 priced lower than a GT yet faster...And then followed by an SS perhaps slightly stronger with a higher pricetag like you mention above..At least until the demise of the V8 :(

I would have to disagree on the whole with your post. I want to start by pointing out that the V8 is not going away. There is some more that can be done to make the V8 even more fuel efficient, and that has not been done yet. Additionally, I want to point out that there will never be a 4-cylinder Camaro unless it has as much torque as the current V6. Apparently, even the LNF engine that powers the Cobalt SS is too inferior to make the Camaro fun to drive. Let's be honest. In the past, every Camaro has been a fun ride, including the V6s. I'm sure that GM won't ruin a great car with an engine that lacks the force to move it.

I do want to reinforce the idea of a V6 with forced induction. Ford is pushing the EcoBoost program. There's no reason that GM should stay with the backwards idea that only the V8 can perform with SS numbers. A V6 with DI and VVT, like the LLT motor, can be built to support forced induction with performance numbers that match or exceed the LS3. It can be at a similar price point, and it will have similar performance. If Ford can do it, then why should GM just watch?

Traditionally, the Z28 has had less displacement with a track-tuned suspension. The current SS already has a competitive, track-tuned suspension, so all it would need is a low-displacement engine with similar performance. Obviously, GM can't release another V8 in a market that would favor fuel efficient vehicles, so a V6 with V8 performance is highly desirable. You still get to go fast, and everyone who claims that there's no replacement for a high-displacement engine would have buy the SS anyway because it has traditionally had a bigger V8. There are no losers in this plan.

[stovt001]

Is it just me or did all of my posts get deleted out of this thread? I'm pretty sure I did not violate any forum rules or anything. Dragoneye even quoted me on page 2, and agreed with me. What gives?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Is it just me or did all of my posts get deleted out of this thread? I'm pretty sure I did not violate any forum rules or anything. Dragoneye even quoted me on page 2, and agreed with me. What gives?

I moved them here: Rumor: G8 = Caprice? when I requested all further Caprice comments to be redirected; as per this post:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Please redirect all Caprice/G8 posts to this thread:
Rumor: G8 = Caprice

Thank You.

I wanted to focus the two conversations (Z28 switch, and G8=Caprice), instead of merging the threads. Plus, one was in the 5thgen section, and one was in the General/Other section...but both were talking about the same thing...it was a natural fit.

Sorry for the confusion. :(

[stovt001]

Yup I just saw that. Wow, there have been so many mergers and post movements my mind feels like I've been through a Lost style time travel sequence. Nosebleed will start any minute now...

Right then, Z28. Well, can't say I'm not happy to hear this development. I just figure it is the logical solution. Clearly, there were two directions on this - emphasis on finesse or high horsepower beast. Whichever one GM decided to do, the aftermarket could do the other one. However, if GM leaves the horsepower to the aftermarket, no one loses out on CAFE regulations, so it seems a pretty easy decision to me. The only downside for GM - marketing handling isn't as easy as marketing some peak hp figure.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Yup I just saw that. Wow, there have been so many mergers and post movements my mind feels like I've been through a Lost style time travel sequence. Nosebleed will start any minute now...

Originally Posted by stovt001

The only downside for GM - marketing handling isn't as easy as marketing some peak hp figure.

They'd have to market Jusssst right...and even then, it would only be an enthusiasts car. Remember, the car is outselling the Mustang with only the coupe version released...yeah, it'll tone down -- but adding models can only do good at this point...I don't think they'll have to concern themselves with stressing the "extra" models so much.

[Dutchman427]

I hope they leave the Z/28 dead if they plan to put a 6 in it. Here comes 1971+ all over again.