SS Prototype Bumper or Original Bumper (Bumpergate has begun)

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Whoever said that? I don't see anyone expressing those feelings. In Fact, if you search the thread, you'll find the only person who uses the word at all (besides me, now) is you........

I think this is more of a preference thing, given that there is no "I don't mind either" option in the poll (which I would fit very snugly in, fyi)...and if the 'SS' facia was the only choice, I'm certain 99% of those who don't prefer it would have no problems with it.

Which leaves....you and one other (because nobody's ever truly alone in their opinions). I don't think GM did any wrong by investing this "massive" amount of money you percieve into a new facia...which I doubt was little more than a computer render, and a cut-die. (and take into account the numbers of new dies that are constantly revised, and recut.)

A die that size is not as easy to make or as inexpensive as you suggest.

Also, taking all the emotional arguments out of the equation we're left with the basic argument that someone "fixed something that ain't broke". It costed money and time. We could have had a lower priced Camaro sooner if the nose wasn't tweaked.

That's it.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

A die that size is not as easy to make or as inexpensive as you suggest.

Also, taking all the emotional arguments out of the equation we're left with the basic argument that someone "fixed something that ain't broke". It costed money and time. We could have had a lower priced Camaro sooner if the nose wasn't tweaked.

That's it.

I still say and maintain that the bumper had to be redesigned for regulations. and that's why it was changed more then anything then it was broke using that logic.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

A die that size is not as easy to make or as inexpensive as you suggest.

Also, taking all the emotional arguments out of the equation we're left with the basic argument that someone "fixed something that ain't broke". It costed money and time. We could have had a lower priced Camaro sooner if the nose wasn't tweaked.

That's it.

Maybe not, I don't make them. But I doubt it's going to have ANY noticable effect on the Camaro's price like you suggest, not when you consider everything else they have to go through as they constantly tweak and improve upon things...And it certainly couldn't have had any effect on the timing of the car (the plant isn't even up at full-tilt, yet)...........

You're letting your feelings for this new bumper get the better of you, Captain; your arguments are flawed. So you don't like it. Lots of other people do, and the team thought it was important enough to invest in.

That's it, imho.

[Captain Awesome]

Saying someone's arguments are flawed while supplying OPINIONS (not facts) to support yourself is flawed.

Just because you like the bumper that several people have expressed a strong distaste for doesn't make you "right".

My argument is that the bumper deviates significantly from the concept cars bumpers. There's no flaw in that argument. The rest of the things I said about wasing money on unnecessary changes is just incing on the cake. They spent money making the car un-concept-like and spent time doing it. If this type of waste is rampant at GM then this is reason to believe all their cars are not efficiently designed and overall the prices reflect the efficiency of the company.

Even if you do a bunch of handwaving and dismiss the wasteful practice of braking stuff that didn't need rework and say this is a flawed argument, you still can't convince me that there's a reason to make such a radical departure from the concept that everyone loved.

Meanwhile, I'm not alone in my position. Yet you try and speak as if I'm the lone dissenter. MANY people don't like the change.

[Mr. Wyndham]

What Opinions am I supplying? And what facts are you supplying that gives you a basis to say that?

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

you still can't convince me that there's a reason to make such a radical departure from the concept that everyone loved.

I can't...but I'm 100% sure that Scott, or Camero, or any of the people involved with the Camaro could. You don't do something for nothing when you're on a budget. You don't change things "because you felt like it". There is a reason for everything. For what it's worth...we are extremely fortunate in that VERY few vehicles ever remain this close to their concepts. You may not like this bumper...but GM did an excellent job staying as true to the concept vehicle as possible.

And I don't believe you're alone. (I did say that...my bad) I think you are one of a very few that object to the new bumper. Like I said, if this were the only option, I'd bet that 90% of the people who said they prefer the original wouldn't have a problem with it.

All I'm taking away from this exchange so far, (I'd like to be wrong) is that you don't like the way the SS facia looks, and you're trying to justify that opinon by making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.......

[Captain Awesome]

What remains to be seen, and nobody has really bothered to touch on this much yet... is if they put that 6 slot grille on the outside of the bumper.

I see a lot of photoshops that make the "mouth" bigger and push the foglights out a little, and I suspect that a lot of the new bumper fans are thinking that THIS is the way it's going to be.

However, if the bumper turns out to have the grille on the outside like it is in the one photo of the convertible I really wonder if this will change some of the opinions to the original bumper. Of all the options, the grille on the face with the tiny slits is the worst looking of the lot (except for the new Bumblebeet treatment).

Care to elaborate more on your opinions of the convertible grille vs. the photoshops of the ss lower fascia?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Care to elaborate more on your opinions of the convertible grille vs. the photoshops of the ss lower fascia?

Me?

I think the grille seen in the real photos isn't exactly how it's going to look. (Almost 2 years of watching prototypes and concepts run around has taught me that much.) I think that grille will be recessed more, like all the other bumpers we've seen. Because as it stands right now, if I was sure this was the final look....I don't HATE it, I wouldn't have a problem with it.....but I don't care for it.

I think the Photoshops (although great work, and professionally done ) don't do any justice to what the real grille will look like. Proportions are all messed up when you simply enlarge the original lower facia. I think they're photographic speculation.

[LS9CamaroSS]

Give me #2 it look a lot more mean... if that is possible with this car...

[boxmonkeyracing]

care to look at the poll and see that the new bumper is still in the lead. . .? this time with 60%. your argument is flawed to. if they touched the bumper and increased cost, BUT more people like the new bumper it might attract more sales from sources not originally interested. which in turn means more money in GM's pockets. either way we are in the what IF territory. doesn't matter the proof is still in the pudding.

[TAG UR IT]

OMG!!! A new front bumper! I think that looks so much cooler than the concepts original bumper! I'm liking this more and more!

Finally...GM is willing to distinguish between it's lower, base model and the top of the line high dollar model. At last I can buy from the factory and have a killer, agressive look w/out having to turn to the aftemarket.....yet again.

My goodness...why this much complaining wasn't put into the gas cap location and/or b-pillar is beyond me....

Wait...I was the one bitching about the gas cap location and b-pillar!!! And...I think I'm finally over it!

And what is really cool?? At least there will BE two bumpers...where I still don't get the choice on gas cap location or not having b-pillars.

1. You still have a choice (so far as we know) between bumpers
2. No one knows how much it really cost to make the new bumper (outside GM)...so GUESSING (ie: speculation) is just that...a guess. Prove to me that it cost a lot of money. I want facts....and not a guess. Just because it cost company A "x" amount of dollars to do a front bumper, DOES NOT mean that it cost company B the same amount of money.
3. Who in the world has declared this new bumper a waste? I didn't even know the Camaro had been relesed yet w/ data to show this.
4. BTW, I chose the concept's bumper.
5. It is my understanding that the general concensus from the disciples was to have the different models LOOK different. ...these are the folks that brought every other thought to GM about this Camaro. This was requested by the majority (whom I agree with).
6. Poll. Who is the majority?

Obviously w/ the majority being in favor of the new SS facia, it doens't look like anything has been wasted here.

.............or here...............

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by TERROR

Just want to point out, it isn't an overwhelming majority. Still plenty of people who like the original fascia.

that wasn't the point. I like both bumpers. but as you can see the majority still like the new bumper. and if it has that effect with enthusiasts then it will with the general public as well. gm is out to sell more cars then just to the people that get upset over a bumper. the more cars they sell the better they do. and if this redesign of the bumper shows that more people like it and adds to the car then they will sell more cars. GM needs to sell more cars. . .

[Camaro68]

bumper #2

[LS9CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

My goodness...why this much complaining wasn't put into the gas cap location and/or b-pillar is beyond me....

Wait...I was the one bitching about the gas cap location and b-pillar!!! And...I think I'm finally over it!

And what is really cool?? At least there will BE two bumpers...where I still don't get the choice on gas cap location or not having b-pillars.

1. You still have a choice (so far as we know) between bumpers
2. No one knows how much it really cost to make the new bumper (outside GM)...so GUESSING (ie: speculation) is just that...a guess. Prove to me that it cost a lot of money. I want facts....and not a guess. Just because it cost company A "x" amount of dollars to do a front bumper, DOES NOT mean that it cost company B the same amount of money.
3. Who in the world has declared this new bumper a waste? I didn't even know the Camaro had been relesed yet w/ data to show this.
4. BTW, I chose the concept's bumper.
5. It is my understanding that the general concensus from the disciples was to have the different models LOOK different. ...these are the folks that brought every other thought to GM about this Camaro. This was requested by the majority (whom I agree with).
6. Poll. Who is the majority?

Obviously w/ the majority being in favor of the new SS facia, it doens't look like anything has been wasted here.

.............or here...............

i want that body kit on that red car...

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

i want that body kit on that red car...