ZL1 to a 1LE?

[Todd in Vancouver]

[QUOTE=ST1LE;8350470]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

There is no doubt that the ZL is heavy. But do you really think that comment after comment on "its a fine driving car for the street" type talk about the ZL and how a 1LE is a true track car isn't bashing?


I dont think anyone has ever said that the ZL1 is just a 'fine driving car'. Like I said in my post, anyone that says a 1LE is a flat out better car would be foolish, as it is simply not true.

This should not upset you, but the fact is the 1LE is better suited to track duty(i.e. it IS a better track car). That does not necessarily mean it is a faster car, there are many more factors to consider other than just speed. I for one could not take either car to their limits at this point, but will start taking lessons next spring. I feel the 1LE is a better platform for a beginner like me, as its been engineered to track(better balance, easier to control and handle), and the reduced power and weight up front compared to the ZL1 will make my experience a more enjoyable one as I wont have to fight the power and weight while at the same time try and learn how to track my car at the limit. When I do hit the track it wont be to beat every other car out there, it will be to have fun and learn and progress. The less I have to fight the car, the more fun I will have. I dont care how many ZL1's blow by me on the straights, this is me against me.

The ZL1 was engineered for so much more than just the track, while that is exactly what the 1LE was designed for. The ZL1 shines in so many more areas than the 1LE, so why be upset that people recognize how good the 1LE is at the ONE thing it was really designed to do?

You drive a ZL1 man, enjoy that amazing machine and get over the fact that it isnt the best at everything.

I do enjoy the hell out of my ZL and also use it as my DD so I am certainly getting my monies worth and have 30K miles on it in just over a year. It is my current weekend track toy and I mean no disrespect for the 1LE but as some others have chimed in this thread does come across as ZL1 bashing. While some may feel the 1LE is a better track car because the "think so" by all standards we can use, mainly time, it just isn't so. Picking subjective criteria doesn't make it fact. I can understand the weight argument but at the end of the day it doesn't add up to a less capable track car, it is still well balanced and with PTM very fast and controllable.

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

You can have a great time at the track in so many difrerent cars and h/p levels. I think the theme I'm seeing here is the Z is not a great track car, but a street cruiser. Yes the car has a bit more weight but it is very well balanced and is a blast to drive at the track. I think people discredit the car, but few have actually driven it to provide feedback. Its not as bad as you might think.

EXACTLY! I'm not the only one who can see the tone of this thread

Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS

Did I miss something here? How is the 1LE a better track car???

Please note the speeds, the ZL is getting around the track faster but not just because its generating more speed it also pulled more G's in every corner. It uses the same tires so why is it faster around the track?
Hmmm, must be because the 1LE is the better track car.

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I am confident you and your car are better at everything than anyone else and their car, no doubt, so lets just move on from there. Let me help you understand what people are saying. The ZL1 cost about $20 K more than a 1LE, and the platform that it provides is a car that is over 2 seconds a lap slower than the ZL1 per the comparison you so graciously provided. Thats huge! In stock format, the ZL1 is faster than the 1LE. Can we both agree to that? I hope so. Can we also agree that it does it because of its HP superiority, because it is well documented that it does not handle as well (less G's on skid pad) than a 1LE.
Now, with the extra $20K that I have left from my purchase of the 1LE vs the ZL1, I can make modifications to gain a huge part of HP back without adding weight (cam, heads, exhaust, tune), improve the braking, and further extend the handling advantage without ADDING ANY WEIGHT.
Now I highlighted that because we are now getting into the benefits that some of these guys are hinting at. The heavier car is going to be harder on tires (big expense) and brakes (significant expense) than the lighter one. Thus, the cost to track a lighter car in the long run is going to be much less than the cost to track a heavier one.
So, to recap for you, you guy who is so much faster than me, a 1LE, for less money than the cost of a ZL1, can be made to go just about as fast, if not faster on most road courses, than a ZL1, and be much more cost effective to operate in a track environment.
Now, one would need to be concerned with the "next weakest link" on the 1LE is significant enough power were added, so there might also be some cost associated with that, and even if you match or exceed the ZL1 on the track, your modded 1LE will not ride a smooth or have some of the other gadgets that can be found on the ZL1, so it will not as nice an all around car, but its not from the start. It will however be a better track toy.
I hope I said it better, and also hope to be as fast as you someday, but am certain that will most likely never be the case.....such is life!

You make a good argument but what I stated from the beginning is that;
1- By the time you make all those mods to the 1LE to beat the ZL1 you could have just bought a ZL1.

2- All these mods to beat the ZL1 are predicated on the ZL being bone stock. In what you spend in brakes I will be able to push my ZL closer to 700hp so what next? someone already stated when we get into the mod argument there is no end and it becomes a rabbit hole.

Just to be clear I am in no way upset or even concerned on this discussion. I just feel it doesn't reflect the truth and when I see something that I feel, (in my opinion, how it's processed in my coconut), incorrect I am going to comment on it because that's what these forums are for. Along with my Z I am also building a much lighter Pro-Tour type car that will see regular track duty so I understand the weight argument and how it impacts the racing. But I would counter argue that balance is a more important aspect of the car and the over track feel. Other words a V8 Vega would be the ultimate track weapon.

They are both great cars and I certainly hope you are all using them for what they were meant for and getting the chance to open them up on the track and see what these bad boys are really capable of.

[Camaro_Corvette]

Enjoyed reading this.

[Dropspeed]

If we look at numbers only, stock for stock the ZL1 is faster with a professional driver than a 1LE. The Z/28 with less power is faster than a ZL1 stock for stock. So what does that tell us........we should all just but C7 ZO6 Corvettes! < racers Math.

[ST1LE]

[QUOTE=Todd in Vancouver;8351265]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I do enjoy the hell out of my ZL and also use it as my DD so I am certainly getting my monies worth and have 30K miles on it in just over a year. It is my current weekend track toy and I mean no disrespect for the 1LE but as some others have chimed in this thread does come across as ZL1 bashing. While some may feel the 1LE is a better track car because the "think so" by all standards we can use, mainly time, it just isn't so. Picking subjective criteria doesn't make it fact. I can understand the weight argument but at the end of the day it doesn't add up to a less capable track car, it is still well balanced and with PTM very fast and controllable.

I agree, and that is why I have never said the ZL1 was less capable. IMO, the ZL1 is faster and more capable but is also more difficult to handle, and by that I mean needs a more experienced driver to handle and drive it like it can be driven. It is heavier and more powerful, both of which increase the difficulty level, and again this should be taken as a compliment to you and all others that are out there kickin ass in their ZL1's at the track.

The 1LE is more subdued power wise, and more balanced, which makes it an easier car to handle and to track at the limit as well as to learn on for less experienced people. This is why I feel it is better suited for track duty. Not because it is faster, or more capable, because neither are true.

I hope I am getting my point across, because I feel like you think I am saying the 1LE is a better car or that anything I am saying is a negative against the ZL1, because I TRULY do not mean it to come across that way. I am pretty sure if I could afford a ZL1, I would have one, so trust me when I say I dont see the 1LE as better. It was just an amazing car that I am lucky enough to have been able to afford.

[Mr. Wyndham]

1LE!!! BBAAAAHHHHH!!!


Dunno why I did that...

Dropspeed, what tires are you running on those gorgeous wheels in your signature?

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

If we look at numbers only, stock for stock the ZL1 is faster with a professional driver than a 1LE. The Z/28 with less power is faster than a ZL1 stock for stock. So what does that tell us........we should all just but C7 ZO6 Corvettes! < racers Math.

Think we can get a group buy going?

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

1LE!!! BBAAAAHHHHH!!!


Dunno why I did that...

Dropspeed, what tires are you running on those gorgeous wheels in your signature?

I think he is running the Hankook RS3. His build thread says so, but I am not sure if he has moved on to try something else.

[Todd in Vancouver]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

If we look at numbers only, stock for stock the ZL1 is faster with a professional driver than a 1LE. The Z/28 with less power is faster than a ZL1 stock for stock. So what does that tell us........we should all just but C7 ZO6 Corvettes! < racers Math.

Now that I can agree with. I am in NO way a Pro driver and am just an Hack of an older Drag race guy who has gotten into the track and AutoX thing the last few years. It is a lot more fun and less focused on the car you build that is for sure and I am certainly getting my kicks now that my kids have all grown up and left home. If you are still in the family phase guys don't get discouraged your time will come.

[QUOTE=ST1LE;8351510]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

I agree, and that is why I have never said the ZL1 was less capable. IMO, the ZL1 is faster and more capable but is also more difficult to handle, and by that I mean needs a more experienced driver to handle and drive it like it can be driven. It is heavier and more powerful, both of which increase the difficulty level, and again this should be taken as a compliment to you and all others that are out there kickin ass in their ZL1's at the track.

The 1LE is more subdued power wise, and more balanced, which makes it an easier car to handle and to track at the limit as well as to learn on for less experienced people. This is why I feel it is better suited for track duty. Not because it is faster, or more capable, because neither are true.

I hope I am getting my point across, because I feel like you think I am saying the 1LE is a better car or that anything I am saying is a negative against the ZL1, because I TRULY do not mean it to come across that way. I am pretty sure if I could afford a ZL1, I would have one, so trust me when I say I dont see the 1LE as better. It was just an amazing car that I am lucky enough to have been able to afford.

That is very clear and the analogy of the Miata being more fun and track car but a lot slower makes perfect sense. I'm just not understanding the "Better" side of the discussion and I fully acknowledge this is partially my issue because when I show up at the track or AutoX in a sea of Miata's I just don't get it. Maybe its the years of drag racing that is cemented in my brain that makes me look at them and goe where is the sound and the power = more fun.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Think we can get a group buy going?

That would be AWESOME
a buddy of mine is waiting on his new Z06 here in Vancouver. He is a real track and racing nut so it'll be fun to see how that car really stacks up at the track against all sorts of different cars both stock, modified and Heavily Modified.

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I think he is running the Hankook RS3. His build thread says so, but I am not sure if he has moved on to try something else.

Still sitting on the RS3. I didn't want the car to sit on new tires over the winter and I figure I can milk another track day or two out of these. I may try the Nitto NT-01 next.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Still sitting on the RS3. I didn't want the car to sit on new tires over the winter and I figure I can milk another track day or two out of these. I may try the Nitto NT-01 next.

Onlinetires.com was selling NT01s at 305/30/19 for $359 each, but last time I checked, they removed all 19/20" NT01 tires from their site; they might be out of stock. I can't find then anywhere else, either, though Discount Tire had pricing for them.

Moral of the story: you might want to order them in advance to make sure you get them on time.

[Dutchman427]

Originally Posted by RGRCamaro

I am not sure why these threads always come up. They are two different cars, built for two different reasons, targeting two different markets.

1LE is obviously designed for a track, and for 35-38K You get an awesome track car, that is hard to beat when comparing similar models for the price!

ZL1 is another great track car, and I believe it was targeted towards that group that wanted a car that could do everything good (Track, strip, cruise), without having to mod it. And it accomplishes that goal!

The two really shouldn't be compared. Simply because of the $$$ difference. Just like how people compare the ZL1 to a modded SS, can't really compare the two. With the extra $$$ you can always make a car more powerful or turn faster.

I was kinda bored when my ZL1 was stock. No rawness what so ever like a muscle car should have. I liked it but it needed a little work.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I think he is running the Hankook RS3. His build thread says so, but I am not sure if he has moved on to try something else.

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Still sitting on the RS3. I didn't want the car to sit on new tires over the winter and I figure I can milk another track day or two out of these. I may try the Nitto NT-01 next.

Thanks!

[Shark72]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Ooh- ooh!!!

I did!

And I do not regret it. I miss some things about the ZL1. But I am very, VERY happy with the 1LE.

Thanks for the response!! What are the things you miss?

[SWAG1LE]

I beat a 2013 ZL1 at the drag strip. He slept at the light....we both spun through 2nd....he couldn't catch me at the big end.