FbodFather....we need your help!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Would you like to try a side of Algae served in a delicious liquid hydrogen sauce with that?

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by aston70

I'll have a plate of biomass and a tall glass of Ethanol please... Thank you...

liquids only for me, except the nukUlar, of course.

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Sorry --my intent is not to upset you (or anyone else...) but what IS true is that there are many myths about Ethanol -- some of them true -- some of them not......

Corn based Ethanol is not a solution......Biomass Ethanol can be.........wouldn't it be great if we could tap landfills that have been sitting for years -- to create ethanol -- and also take care of waste???

As you (and others) have pointed out -- there is no one single silver bullet --

As a leader of transportation world-wide (and a citizen of this earth...) it behooves GM to come up with a MENU of fuel solutions -- and that's exactly what we're doing ...

Ethanol is one of those solutions -- and that's why we're investing in it as well as Electric/Hydrogen/etc. -- and that is why I don't agree with your appeal to tell people not to write to their elected leaders to work on Ethanol solutions........it is the quickest way to make an immediate impact........

but drilling mostly...that would make the most immediate impact...since obviously people who can't afford gas now or who's wallet is hurting can't just go and buy a whole new car that has this new "alternative" energy in it...but the biomass ethanal sounds like a good idea and if we can combine all these new technologies with drilling for domestic oil...we will be doing quite well...

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

but drilling mostly...that would make the most immediate impact...since obviously people who can't afford gas now or who's wallet is hurting can't just go and buy a whole new car that has this new "alternative" energy in it...but the biomass ethanal sounds like a good idea and if we can combine all these new technologies with drilling for domestic oil...we will be doing quite well...

Even if this petition goes through, is the government going to force these oil groups to start drilling more to increase the supply and lower their profits? Isn't this against the very ideals that you say you support (not forcing businesses to change based on government policy)?

[aston70]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Would you like to try a side of Algae served in a delicious liquid hydrogen sauce with that?

After my tall glass of ethanol, I'd say anything's a go...

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Even if this petition goes through, is the government going to force these oil groups to start drilling more to increase the supply and lower their profits? Isn't this against the very ideals that you say you support (not forcing businesses to change based on government policy)?

they have been begging congress to allow them to tap those areas... (oil companies)

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

they have been begging congress to allow them to tap those areas... (oil companies)

Oil companies? They actually want to lower the prices for us by drilling?I hope they follow through if that's the case...hmmm...sounds good. Did the companies actually promise to lower the price if it is allowed?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Oil companies? They actually want to lower the prices for us by drilling?I hope they follow through if that's the case...hmmm...sounds good. Did the companies actually promise to lower the price if it is allowed?

They won't lower them...they'll Let "supply and demand" lower the prices.

Btw, I have come to the revelation that not all oil companies, and their CEOs are evil. I like what T. Boone Pickens has been saying these past few days. Hopefully someone 'important' will listen.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Oil companies? They actually want to lower the prices for us by drilling?I hope they follow through if that's the case...hmmm...sounds good. Did the companies actually promise to lower the price if it is allowed?

There isn't enough oil to remotely compensate for the imported oil. If anything, prices will just go up at a slower pace for a few years. I imagine any new drilling would drop prices due to speculation in the short term, but speculators have a short memory and will raise the prices again. The best way to curb speculation on oil and to boost the economy is to be more frugal about buying gas and to use alternatives whenever possible. If you can get a daily driver that is electric or E85, that will contribute more than oil drilling.

In other words, speculation on oil will not change over the long term. The best way to change speculation is to change what they speculate. Give them another technology to speculate pricing. Their investments into alternative fuels, in addition to those who buy the products, will increase the resources of alternative fuel producers. In turn, the price of alternatives will drop due to a cheaper supply and the price of oil will drop due to a lack of demand. All we have to do is not buy cars that cannot run on ethanol and fill up with at least E10 every time you get more gas.

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

There isn't enough oil to remotely compensate for the imported oil. If anything, prices will just go up at a slower pace for a few years. I imagine any new drilling would drop prices due to speculation in the short term, but speculators have a short memory and will raise the prices again. The best way to curb speculation on oil and to boost the economy is to be more frugal about buying gas and to use alternatives whenever possible. If you can get a daily driver that is electric or E85, that will contribute more than oil drilling.

In other words, speculation on oil will not change over the long term. The best way to change speculation is to change what they speculate. Give them another technology to speculate pricing. Their investments into alternative fuels, in addition to those who buy the products, will increase the resources of alternative fuel producers. In turn, the price of alternatives will drop due to a cheaper supply and the price of oil will drop due to a lack of demand. All we have to do is not buy cars that cannot run on ethanol and fill up with at least E10 every time you get more gas.

we've got more oil here than all of the middle east...common sense will tell you that if it goes into the market it will have a tremendous effect on pricing...supply and demand

e85 is a drop in the bucket compared to the effect drilling domestically would have...

e85 is like .5% of the oil currently available ...

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

we've got more oil here than all of the middle east...common sense will tell you that if it goes into the market it will have a tremendous effect on pricing...supply and demand

e85 is a drop in the bucket compared to the effect drilling domestically would have...

IF it all gets opened up immediately. Which is won't be. We're fighting for a few spots with tremendous resistance. Not to mention the time it will take to build up refinery capacity to handle it all. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done (I DID sign the petition), but it's not as simple and straight-forward as drill today, price goes down tomorrow.:(

E85 is similar in that it's not ready NOW, but it is ready SOONER. Within a year, we're looking at 100 million gallons from one plant, and within another 5 years(?), Congress wants 30 billion gallons (?) to be produced. That's not a replacement, but it's a big dent.

Since we're all putting forth our ideas/opinions here...I think we should focus a LOT of time and capital to Algae, and the fuels it can produce, including straight-up crude oil.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

but drilling mostly...that would make the most immediate impact...since obviously people who can't afford gas now or who's wallet is hurting can't just go and buy a whole new car that has this new "alternative" energy in it...but the biomass ethanal sounds like a good idea and if we can combine all these new technologies with drilling for domestic oil...we will be doing quite well...

well......but here's the problem -- there is only so much petroleum in the world -- it isn't renewable -- (well -- OK -- mebbe 100,000 years or so....I'm not a scientist...) -- whereas Ethanol IS........

There are over 2.5 million Chevrolets on the road today that will burn Ethanol........over 3 million GM cars and trucks -- and more every day.....for 2008, versions of:

> 3.5 L Impala
>5.3 L Express Van
> 5.3 L Silverado
>5.3 L Tahoe
>5.3 L Suburban
>5.3 L Avalanche

-- and for 2009 -- Non SS versions of HHR........


Oh ........and did I mention that Ethanol produces less Green House Gases????

[Roflmao]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

IF it all gets opened up immediately. Which is won't be. We're fighting for a few spots with tremendous resistance. Not to mention the time it will take to build up refinery capacity to handle it all. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done (I DID sign the petition), but it's not as simple and straight-forward as drill today, price goes down tomorrow.:(

This is what I have been trying to say, the simple fact of drilling is not going to help the gasoline issue. Oil doesn't just magically come out of the ground as gasoline, it has to be refined. The simple facts are the united states does not have the refinery capacity to refine any extra oil even if we do drill it right now. Its not like we have refineries just sitting around doing nothing, or even refining other peoples oil. The majority of refining that we do is done on domestic oil. Also, from an economic standpoint, why in the world would an oil company pay for a new refinery, when they can make profits without paying billions of dollars to build a refinery? It just doesn't make business sense, if it did, they would have been building more of them over the past 30 years. Drilling for more oil is just not a practical answer to the problem.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Roflmao

This is what I have been trying to say, the simple fact of drilling is not going to help the gasoline issue. Oil doesn't just magically come out of the ground as gasoline, it has to be refined. The simple facts are the united states does not have the refinery capacity to refine any extra oil even if we do drill it right now. Its not like we have refineries just sitting around doing nothing, or even refining other peoples oil. The majority of refining that we do is done on domestic oil. Also, from an economic standpoint, why in the world would an oil company pay for a new refinery, when they can make profits without paying billions of dollars to build a refinery? It just doesn't make business sense, if it did, they would have been building more of them over the past 30 years. Drilling for more oil is just not a practical answer to the problem.

If all the refining we do is on domestic oil, then pray tell why are we importing oil?? The point of drill here, drill now, pay less is to produce all or most of our oil needs domestically and don't buy foreign oil. If we stop buying the quantities we now purchase on the world market it will have an impact on oil prices driving them lower. Sure we could use some extra refinery capacity, environmental laws/rules have kept companies from building any new refineries. We also need to focus on nuclear power plants for our electricity needs, more research into ways to clean burn coal, research into alternative energy methods, we need to think "outside of the box". It needs to be a multi-pronged attack and game plan, but drilling here/now needs to be the first point of attack.
Clyde