CA Dealer Still Asking $80K For 2015 Z/28

[1970judge]

Originally Posted by 805camaro

Here is a thought for all of you to chew on, would you pay the $80,000 if this was the last 2015 Z/28 manufactured? Would it be worth the extra $$$ in your eyes?

No.. I love these cars as much as anyone, but I have my doubts as to whether they will actually appreciate to collector prices so paying a lot for a certain one wont make much sense IMO. WHICH IS A GOOD THING! I dont want these to sky rocket to the ridiculous prices of yesterdays muscle cars. I want the average person to be able to experience these cars. 17xx cars built they are rare, sure, BUT there is still another ~498k cars built that look similar. But of course, prices are based on demand and if suddenly these are being clamored over for some reason, maybe that price would be reasonable.

[YamaMISSILE]

Originally Posted by 1970judge

No.. I love these cars as much as anyone, but I have my doubts as to whether they will actually appreciate to collector prices so paying a lot for a certain one wont make much sense IMO. WHICH IS A GOOD THING! I dont want these to sky rocket to the ridiculous prices of yesterdays muscle cars. I want the average person to be able to experience these cars. 17xx cars built they are rare, sure, BUT there is still another ~498k cars built that look similar. But of course, prices are based on demand and if suddenly these are being clamored over for some reason, maybe that price would be reasonable.

Similar doesn't mean anything. The fact that we are 1 of 17xx is what makes the Z/28 special.

[Salespunk]

They won't be in demand for a while. Probably 20 years from now when a large naturally aspirated motors are totally extinct and forgotten about.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[G6Flyer]

Originally Posted by 805camaro

Here is a thought for all of you to chew on, would you pay the $80,000 if this was the last 2015 Z/28 manufactured? Would it be worth the extra $$$ in your eyes?

The last 2015 built sold for $135,000 at B/J (for charity).

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...O-Z/28--187969

[1970judge]

Originally Posted by YamaMISSILE

Similar doesn't mean anything. The fact that we are 1 of 17xx is what makes the Z/28 special.

I totally agree, it is a special car. I just dont believe it will be that special in the future, it is an acquired taste vehicle. In 1999 there were only 196 B4C cars built, and I passed on one for 5k a month ago. I always chuckle when a person posts their 2002 SS or something with 500 miles that they bought and parked and expected it to appreciate. Me personally, I am not going to pay that much for it.

It is my opinion of course..

I never understood all the hype of the 69 either, I dont care much for them but I have always wanted a DZ car, but I am not going to pay the 100+k for one. It isnt THAT special to me.

Bottom line is it remains to be seen, and I could certainly be wrong about it. I hope I am not wrong though, I want these to be affordable to people to enjoy and drive. Not be collector pieces in someones garage collecting dust like so many other beautiful cars are doing.

[G6Flyer]

Originally Posted by 1970judge

I totally agree, it is a special car. I just dont believe it will be that special in the future, it is an acquired taste vehicle. In 1999 there were only 196 B4C cars built, and I passed on one for 5k a month ago. I always chuckle when a person posts their 2002 SS or something with 500 miles that they bought and parked and expected it to appreciate. Me personally, I am not going to pay that much for it.

It is my opinion of course..

I never understood all the hype of the 69 either, I dont care much for them but I have always wanted a DZ car, but I am not going to pay the 100+k for one. It isnt THAT special to me.

Bottom line is it remains to be seen, and I could certainly be wrong about it. I hope I am not wrong though, I want these to be affordable to people to enjoy and drive. Not be collector pieces in someones garage collecting dust like so many other beautiful cars are doing.

With all due respect, your statements are kind of discombobulated...

-The 5th Gen Z/28 is a special car, but won't be that special in the future?

-It's somehow comparable to a B4C that has literally no special features at all (it was a Z28 in sheep's clothing - big deal...)?

-You don't care much for a 1969, but want one?

I have no idea whether 5th Gen Z/28s will be collectible in the future, but if they are it will be for a combination of these reasons:

1. The 5th generation has been a popular generation.

2. The Z/28 is the "most" Camaro you could get in the 5th generation.

3. The iconic 427 (and very likely the last large-displacement N/A V8 used in a Chevy).

4. It was reviewed extremely well by virtually every automotive publication that got to wring one out - including 2014 Best Driver's Car.

5. There is far more to it than a sticker package - CCBs, DSSV dampers, functional aero package, etc. (i.e. There are significant, substantial and costly upgrades over the standard Camaro).

6. Fewer than 1800 built.

Your screen name is 1970 Judge (I assume you're referencing a GTO and not that you are a 46 year old magistrate) - what characteristic does the 1970 Judge have that makes it desirable and collectible that a 5th Gen Z/28 does not/will not have in 30-40 years?

[E. Bryant]

Originally Posted by Z28 HLR

So where did the marketing go wrong? There are 1700 pleased owners, what messed up exactly?

I'm not sure that marketing did go wrong; to make that statement would require more knowledge of the business plan than I have.

Certainly, with a $75k price tag, no one should have assumed that many of these would be sold. Could more have been sold at $60k? Certainly. Would it have been possible to make money had every unit been sold at that price? I don't know. My guess is that the strategy was to sell every unit they could at or near retail, which then allows substantially more flexibility on pricing with the remaining units. But that is only speculation, and doesn't address the question of whether or not this program was deemed a success or a failure. When or if we see a replacement, its content and pricing will contain some strong hints.

[1970judge]

Originally Posted by G6Flyer

With all due respect, your statements are kind of discombobulated...

-The 5th Gen Z/28 is a special car, but won't be that special in the future?
Yes, it is a special car in a sense of the parts and package. I do not believe it will be a special car in the future that will command the collector car prices. Two variations of the word 'special'.

-It's somehow comparable to a B4C that has literally no special features at all (it was a Z28 in sheep's clothing - big deal...)?
You referenced rarity making the car 'special'. Just making a point that more goes in to it than just rarity.

-You don't care much for a 1969, but want one?
Correct. Not the end all be all to me, like it is to so many people. I would like the DZ car, almost exclusively for the engine. I'd prefer the 302 in a 70-73 if I had my picking.

I have no idea whether 5th Gen Z/28s will be collectible in the future, but if they are it will be for a combination of these reasons:

1. The 5th generation has been a popular generation.
Correct. The point I am making is BECAUSE it is so popular is why these cars may not be future collector pieces.

2. The Z/28 is the "most" Camaro you could get in the 5th generation.
Correct. My argument against it is, more people prefer the 2SS or 1LE or ZL1 instead, because this is a 'most' kind of car meant for people like you and I.

3. The iconic 427 (and very likely the last large-displacement N/A V8 used in a Chevy).
You could be right.

4. It was reviewed extremely well by virtually every automotive publication that got to wring one out - including 2014 Best Driver's Car.
Agreed.

5. There is far more to it than a sticker package - CCBs, DSSV dampers, functional aero package, etc. (i.e. There are significant, substantial and costly upgrades over the standard Camaro).
Yes, I think me using the word special is where the confusion is maybe. I understand the upgrades, I work around the cars everyday . Very few have the research into these cars that I have. We both agree the Zs are 'special' but will they be highly sought after collector gems such as the, say, old COPO cars? That is where I say no.

6. Fewer than 1800 built.

Your screen name is 1970 Judge (I assume you're referencing a GTO and not that you are a 46 year old magistrate) - what characteristic does the 1970 Judge have that makes it desirable and collectible that a 5th Gen Z/28 does not/will not have in 30-40 years?

It is just a car from my childhood that I clung to, and liked it ever since. Nothing more, nothing less. That car just looks right to me.


This is where internet forums fall short, or at least me typing on one. It is harder to make my point here than it would be in normal conversation. Basic point is based on "only 17xx" cars built alone, that is not enough for me to agree they will be future collector items. These cars are spectacular, and I love them more than just about any other car ever produced. Add in the fact that the bits and pieces that make that car 'special' to you and I deter a lot of folks from considering it..including the price tag.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by G6Flyer

With all due respect, your statements are kind of discombobulated...

-The 5th Gen Z/28 is a special car, but won't be that special in the future?

-It's somehow comparable to a B4C that has literally no special features at all (it was a Z28 in sheep's clothing - big deal...)?

-You don't care much for a 1969, but want one?

I have no idea whether 5th Gen Z/28s will be collectible in the future, but if they are it will be for a combination of these reasons:

1. The 5th generation has been a popular generation.

2. The Z/28 is the "most" Camaro you could get in the 5th generation.

3. The iconic 427 (and very likely the last large-displacement N/A V8 used in a Chevy).

4. It was reviewed extremely well by virtually every automotive publication that got to wring one out - including 2014 Best Driver's Car.

5. There is far more to it than a sticker package - CCBs, DSSV dampers, functional aero package, etc. (i.e. There are significant, substantial and costly upgrades over the standard Camaro).

6. Fewer than 1800 built.

Your screen name is 1970 Judge (I assume you're referencing a GTO and not that you are a 46 year old magistrate) - what characteristic does the 1970 Judge have that makes it desirable and collectible that a 5th Gen Z/28 does not/will not have in 30-40 years?

#3 is the difference down the road, like every preceeding Camaro for the last 48 years the collector money follows the motor. B4C's ILE's are just suspension/brake upgrades with the exclusion of the third gens which had a few more kibbles and bits like driveshaft and baffled tank,but no HP difference. The Gen 5Z is from another planet respective to like parts from your average SS,and that doesn't even factor the exclusivity of the motor. Think GNX with these in twenty years IMO,I.E 3X the current valuations ,or perhaps Ford GT in ten?. Much easier ways to make money, but money in the bank they will be.

[G6Flyer]

Originally Posted by 1970judge

It is just a car from my childhood that I clung to, and liked it ever since. Nothing more, nothing less. That car just looks right to me.


This is where internet forums fall short, or at least me typing on one. It is harder to make my point here than it would be in normal conversation. Basic point is based on "only 17xx" cars built alone, that is not enough for me to agree they will be future collector items. These cars are spectacular, and I love them more than just about any other car ever produced. Add in the fact that the bits and pieces that make that car 'special' to you and I deter a lot of folks from considering it..including the price tag.

I would just say that it is not the base or down-line model of any "classic" car that commands top dollar, it is always the top of the line (all other things being equal - i.e. quality of restoration, ownership pedigree, documentation, etc).

I respectfully disagree that the popularity of the 6-cyl and SS models of the 5th Gen will have any downward effect on the future value of the Z/28. If anything their popularity will make the Z/28 more valuable. After all, the down-line models weren't the ones competing against (and besting) world-class cars like Porsche, GT-R, etc.

I will grant you the ZL1 has a fierce following (mainly amongst ZL1 owners...), but I see a lot more people on this forum that have gone from ZL1 to Z/28 than the other way around - and every one of them (that I have seen) has said the Z/28 is the better car.

Again, nobody can say for certain what the future holds, but the fact that the Z/28 was the top of the line/rarest/most acclaimed 5th Gen Camaro produced - and the low production number (supply and demand) - give the Z/28 a reasonably high likelihood of holding value and/or appreciating over time.

[G6Flyer]

Originally Posted by 1970judge

It is just a car from my childhood that I clung to, and liked it ever since. Nothing more, nothing less. That car just looks right to me.


This is where internet forums fall short, or at least me typing on one. It is harder to make my point here than it would be in normal conversation. Basic point is based on "only 17xx" cars built alone, that is not enough for me to agree they will be future collector items. These cars are spectacular, and I love them more than just about any other car ever produced. Add in the fact that the bits and pieces that make that car 'special' to you and I deter a lot of folks from considering it..including the price tag.

One more thing - what about the first gen COPO cars that you referenced makes them special? For that matter, why do first gen Z/28s command more than the base and SS models?

They are low-production, high-performance, special engine/suspension package cars. From what you've said about the 5th gen Z/28, that's not enough to make them collectible so what is the magic ingredient they possess that the Z/28 doesn't?

[69L48Z27]

Originally Posted by G6Flyer

One more thing - what about the first gen COPO cars that you referenced makes them special? For that matter, why do first gen Z/28s command more than the base and SS models?

They are low-production, high-performance, special engine/suspension package cars. From what you've said about the 5th gen Z/28, that's not enough to make them collectible so what is the magic ingredient they possess that the Z/28 doesn't?

And, don't forget this car hit almost every top ten list for future collectible. Hagerty, Hemmimgs, Barrett, ...

1800 cars over two model years. The 1st gen Z/28 in '69 was ~20k copies. There aren't many cars with less production stats than the C5 Z/28.

I didn't buy the car to be an investment but I would be great to break even at some point. And that to is relative.

[JUSTIFIED]

Haggarty's makes a living understanding the automotive collectible market and they say the Z/28 is a future collectible. Their primary reasoning seems centered on the fact that it is a symbol of a new generation of high performance cars.

Think about it... this is a car that took things to totally new level... no sound deadening, DSSV suspension, LS7 (last of), barely street legal tires, A/C delete option, 440 more pounds of downforce at 160 MPH than an SS, CCBs, etc. and it ran head to head w/ a 911 GT3 and lost by 1 second. Add the fact that it didn't sell as well as GM had as well GM had hoped and it's lore will grow and grow. Just my 2 cents. It won't matter to me.. I daily drive mine (in the rain even), but for those who keep it to low miles, it'll likely be highly sought after down the road.

One last thing to consider.... it may not only be the last of the high performance NA V8s, but it may be one of the last high performing V8s altogether. Eco-boost V6s are going to be the future. Reference point...the new Ford GT.

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2015...-cars-of-2015/

[davepnw]

CA Dealer Still Asking $80K For 2015 Z/28
ask in one hand and, s*%$# in the other...see which one fills up first.