Launch Control Tech

[Scarrzz]

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I've been thinking about the launch control system we are expecting for ZL1. I'm wondering how that works and specifically, will the parameters be built into it for a stock ZL1 or will it work independently by measuring factors like wheel rotation, gear, throttle, weight distribution, etc.

I know our guys at GM have been aiming to surpass the GT500, but there's no way they can know just what next year's model will be, just like their people are wondering how high our bar is going to be.

Of course I'm urgently and fervently hoping that our stock ZL1 will outshine the stock GT500 in both the HP numbers and the quarter mile. I'll be honest, I want the bragging rights, not because I want to brag but because I want it to be an established fact. When you drive up, they will already know.

I look forward to congratulating my GT driving buddy for coming in second in a two man race.

The thing that gives me concern is the rumored 600-620 HP that the GT may get next year. We all know it's possible.

No matter how sexy the ZL1 is, and no matter how stellar a performer it is, I still won't be content with anything but a win against the Moose-Tongue.

So my question for someone who understands the launch control system is this: If we decide to mod up to say, 650HP, will the launch control system seamlessly convert that added power to into speed?


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[1981DFA]

[slick rick]

Here's a video on how it works on the Corvette

[radz28]

I believe it'll work with almost all of the vehicle control systems (even if nothing else, for reference) to balance weight distribution, power, and tractions to get the most effective launch. In ZR1 (and CTS-V, too, I believe), the MR shocks detect a lauch, loosen the rear shocks (and probably tighten the front) to transfer weight, use the ABS system to detect tire slip, and modulate the power by retarding spark and such. I don't know who the LC is intiated, but it would seem to me that if it detects the car is stationary, it probably automatically reduces the viscocity of the rear shocks and when it detects a certain throttle gain, it automatically starts balancing all of the control systems. That's just a guess based off of my understanding of the technology and features of those systems.

I haven't noticed any active suspension on US model Ford cars, so I'm not sure that technology would be ready immediately, however, I haven't had my finger on it's pulse, so I don't really know.

I, too, want everything you state in your 3rd paragraph. Whether we realize this in the next couple years (I don't know when we'd expect this mythical 620 horse snake), but I know I want ZL1 to be the mongoose.

I think it's easy to be distracted by the GT500's power and forget that ZL1 is a PACKAGE. Downforce, active suspension, plenty of power, balance, and all of the rest of the technology will add up in the end. While I want complete dominance from ZL1 over the GT500, and I might be expecting too much from it, I remain confident GM knows our expectations and will work it's best to deliver. All it takes is money, and it's all about balance, so I try to just remain calm. Regardless of the outcome, I can tell you I wouldn't by a GT500, so I'd just worry about nothing I can control or would change.

It would seem to me that claims and statements that the next generation MR is the fastest reacting system in the world shouldn't have a problem with adding a little more power. As long as the OEM control systems remain in place and unalterred (i.e. removing TM, for example), I can't see what the computer couldn't retard the timing or even activate a rear brake if it detected excessive slip. I just don't think it would matter how much power you make for the most part. However, I'm certainly no expert and hardly one to claim I can tell you with any honest certainty.

I worry about many of the topics you bring up, along with the others that we all share and all the rumors we see posted. The fact is we're going to get what we get and if it's not enough, the aftermarket is there. I certainly would encourage a constructive dialogue, just like I think you've initiated, because it certainly doesn't hurt GM to see what we think. My whole existance on this site has been contaminated with excitement over this car, even before we knew the name, or had any real evidence of it's development. I thought the more posts and attention we can draw to it, the more GM would see there is a market and enthusiasm for a car like this.

JMVHO.

[Scarrzz]

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That's a very informative vid, Rick. Thanks much.

I suppose it can be extrapolated from the "wheel spin measurement" comment that that is the way they are determining the amount of power transferred to the wheels, so any additional power under the hood would just be sitting there waiting for hook up when it can be applied to good effect.

I was a bit surprised when he said maximum traction takes place where the wheels are traveling only slightly faster than the car. Starting friction is normally greater than sliding friction. I'm not doubting their results, but maybe what he intended to convey in a more simplistic way considering that he was speaking (I assume) to laypeople is that maximum acceleration is achieved when the wheels are traveling only slightly faster than the car. That would be due to the constraints of gearing and power production at a given engine RPM.

I always appreciate your well considered thoughts, Radz28. ZL1 is the car for me, and I do "Have Faith." I'm already emotionally invested in a car that hasn't yet been built. It's just so hard to be calm when I have this much anticipation.

I will try not to worry about rumors. What we get will be a wicked fierce ZL1.

I have eaten snake before and it tasted good.

I believe we will be the mongoose.

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[OldJedi]

This car (ZL1) is going to be soooo cool !!!!!!!!!!!

[Z_Rocks]

I'm not sure the LC and PTM will make it to ZL1. That's an additional $10,000 to the car. If they put it in as std, that car will run in $60K.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

I'm not sure the LC and PTM will make it to ZL1. That's an additional $10,000 to the car. If they put it in as std, that car will run in $60K.

It may be that the price point of 10k was accurate on the 'vette, but when the R&D has already been done there and you figure in the savings from spreading that R&D cost out over a much wider base you might be surprised.

How much would it actually cost for GM to integrate the system to ZL1 and to manufacture the actual electronics would seem to be the most important factors in deciding whether to include it, I would think.


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[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

How much would it actually cost for GM to integrate the system to ZL1 and to manufacture the actual electronics would seem to be the most important factors in deciding whether to include it, I would think.
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That's only part of the equation whether a feature gets included or not. The other part [perhaps more importantly] is to cover it under warranty. When a manufacture sells a car for $XXX amount, a big part pf $XXX is to pay for it again under warranty.

When Nissan GT-R came out, the first year they lost a lot of money on the launch control for fixing transmission ($18,000).
A $50K car with PTM & Launch Control, won't leave enough profit to make.

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

I'm not sure the LC and PTM will make it to ZL1. That's an additional $10,000 to the car. If they put it in as std, that car will run in $60K.

Wow, that's the first I've heard of such a price premium for this feature. I highly doubt it would be that significant for the ZL1.

Anyways, according to Shawn Bailey, a Road and Track editor, the ZL1 prototype that they photographed had this feature

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135753

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

That's only part of the equation whether a feature gets included or not. The other part [perhaps more importantly] is to cover it under warranty. When a manufacture sells a car for $XXX amount, a big part pf $XXX is to pay for it again under warranty.

When Nissan GT-R came out, the first year they lost a lot of money on the launch control for fixing transmission ($18,000).
A $50K car with PTM & Launch Control, won't leave enough profit to make.

You do have a point. I knew about the Nissan issue (to put it mildly) but didn't realize that their repair had been so outrageously expensive.

However, GM didn't have a problem with this system when it was introduced, and I don't expect they will as they continue to use it. That feature would make up enough difference in the quarter mile to account for most of our extra weight as compared to the GT500, I believe.

There are many variables, but you must admit that using an already proven system that is state of the art and already in your arsenal makes a lot of sense.


BTW, in a quick check of the Nissan repairs price I came across this vid. It's pretty funny (unless you bought a Nissan GT-R.)

(Note: the vid has a couple of curse words, so don't click it if you don't want to. Our site is family friendly.)




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[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

BTW, in a quick check of the Nissan repairs price I came across this vid. It's pretty funny (unless you bought a Nissan GT-R.)

"Then there was that asshole in the R8..."

Priceless!!!

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

Anyways, according to Shawn Bailey, a Road and Track editor, the ZL1 prototype that they photographed had this feature

Well, if LC & PTM makes it to production and they sell the car around $50K, even if I have to become a Gigolo, I would, to pay for the car...

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

Well, if LC & PTM makes it to production and they sell the car around $50K, even if I have to become a Gigolo, I would, to pay for the car...

Hey, don't be diss'n us Gigolos. ....


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