Headers and Warranty

[Chucks_Red_Jewel]

Has anyone talked to a Dealer over Headers voiding warranty, how many got away installing headers without tunning and had trouble with the Service Engine Soon Light?

Curious, about to buy headers

[v6sonoma]

I would say long tubes will definitely void warranty unless you have dealers blessing due to the movement of the cats. Shorties shouldn't be a problem.

[Russell James]

It's a grey area. There will be so many opinions. The one that counts is in your warranty book. The page that has the - Does Not Cover - section explains that damage caused by... modifications/alterations... is not covered. So if the headers melt the spark plug wires, not covered. If the headers turn on the check engine light, not covered. The real grey areas come in things that are not cut and dry. Break your driveshaft.... one person might cover you under warranty. Another may say the driveline was not designed for additional hp, so your not covered.

Run your ideas past your service dept, service manager, get their opinion on how they will handle any issues that may develop if you choose to do some tinkering. Most will be quite reasonable.

The check engine light is another grey area. It might come on with LT's and probably will someday. It also might stay off. Best route is a reputable tuning of some sort, and something that can be reversed back to stock.

A good CAI is another great performance boost for these cars. Several brands out there that are really well made and engineered not to read the MAF correctly and not turn on the check engine light.

If you want to tread lightly getting into performance mods at first. Get a Cold Air Intake, something like a Halltech that is known for not turning on the check engine light. A nice sounding exhaust. And then headers and tuning down the road if you want to really get into performance mods and can accept some grey areas of possible warranty issues. But even then, if your smart about it and stick with reputable companies/tuners... most often not an issue. I've put headers/CAI... on several Vettes, 4th gen F-bodies, a GTO... never had a problem.

[Kscarguy]

I stopped by my dealer yesterday and asked about headers and exhuast. I want to put LT's,cats,and the rest. But I only want it to void the exhaust warranty. The service manager introduces me to his service advisor, who happens to drive a 04 GTO with mods. At first he pretty much says cat back systems are the only safe upgrade. But after a short bench racing session, he is going to see how far we can push it. For now, I'm not getting my hopes up.

[kauffjd3]

I have been debating for awhile now. My dealer said exhaust wont void warranty but did he mean LT headers too? I don't know. I decided for now I am ordering the SLP LM2 kit. That should do the trick for awhile.

[TommyTSquared]

Originally Posted by kauffjd3

I have been debating for awhile now. My dealer said exhaust wont void warranty but did he mean LT headers too? I don't know. I decided for now I am ordering the SLP LM2 kit. That should do the trick for awhile.

Dealer can always change what he meant when he 'said' something... you should try to get whatever he says in writing.

writing - "... exhaust wont void ..."
you - "you wrote exhaust, headers are party of the exhaust are they not?!"
them - "yeah but..."
you - "yeah but my ass"

[MarylandSpeed]

You know...I see a lot of people posting.."will a tune void my warranty", or "will headers void my warranty".

The thing is...NO ONE ever posts that they had their warranty voided because of these things. If GM were voiding Camaro warranties or refusing service..there are enough of these parts on cars out there, it would be all over the forums. So..in short..what I am saying is... could a dealer void your warranty, or give you a hard time over a tune, or aftermarket parts? Sure they could. but on the flip side, GM could go bankrupt, and your dealer might not even be around to provide service. Given GM's recent track record..and the lack of people complaining about voided warranties..I would bet on the dealer going out of business having a higher likelyhood.

[Mark H]

actually the dealership has the burden of proof that the after market part caused the issue
http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

[Kscarguy]

Good points MarylandSpeed and Mark H. I have been looking for those posts as well. Or better yet something from the General that clearly spells it out. But I have only concluded one thing. I need more information...

Assumption #1 - NO ONE ever posts that they had their warranty voided because of these things.

Is that because all the aftermarket mods are perfect, defect free, and work in perfect harmony with the OEM parts for the life of the GM warranty (5 yrs 100K miles)?
Leaves me asking more questions;

Of the 89000 2010 camaros built to-date;
How many have been modded with LT headers, cats, and exhaust that have been;
1) None of the 2010's have hit the five year warranty mark, so how many cars with mods listed above have hit the 100K mile mark without an issue?

2) Of the cars that have been driven 100K with mods: What kinds of issues has GM covered? What kinds have they denied?

That's the data I want to see. You see, for many like myself I want to increase performance while balancing risk. Why? Because I’m on a budget.

Assumption #2 - I'm protected by the federal law, and the burden of proof is on manufacturer. Well, given the mods of LT headers, cats, exhaust, and tuning how well am I covered.(5 years or 100K miles) To test that assumption requires a "what if" situation. (I know we could “what if to death.)
So, we install, LT headers, cats, and exhaust, and tune it. What could go wrong? How many of us have experienced "The headers so and so installed are leaking again, the bolt loosened up, or the gaskets have worn." (usually on an old hot rod/muscle car) The difference here is the 02 sensors will cause the mix to be changed immediately. It wouldn’t take long to say burn a valve. So, just how long would it take a dealership to prove that the mods caused the burnt valve? Hmm, brings us to yet more questions.

3) How many warranty claims has GM had for burnt valves with the stock manifolds, cats and exhaust?

If the answer is zero. They have just rendered the warranty void and now I have two options: 1) Fix it on my dime, or 2) Start legal proceedings. Hmm, either way its a hit to my budget.

Or we could have someone (like an aftermarket performance manufacturer) test this “what if” in real life with a real car and dealership and post the results here. Or put a warranty in writing to cover any gaps between the GM Warranty and issues that could result from using their products.

So, it really boils down to an individual’s budget and level of comfortable risk. If the budget is unlimited then you can afford to risk it all. However, because all the data isn’t available (answering the question above) and usually budgets have limits. This issue will continue to be raised until enough 2010 camaro’s with mods have reached 5 years or 100K miles. And members post their experiences here.

Because part of what we are paying for in that new car price is the cost of underwriting the warrany.

[TAG UR IT]

OH boy...

The only way you will know is if you talk to your dealer.

My dealer SOLD me the car with LT's on it. My dealer back home said this was fine, I was okay, and the LT's didn't void the warranty. Heck some other dealers are saying entire warranties are voided due to a simply air filter replacement. Some dealers are idiots and some are bright enough to actually use their heads, think about what has happened, and make an intelligent decision. If my rear end goes out, it's not due to my LT's. Simple.

Ask your dealer. You SHOULD be fine.

If they say not to do it, go ask elsewhere.

Oh...and I get a CEL light once in a while, but it turns itself off. MOST of the time it's off.

[caper]

i have a question... everyone says ask your dealer... well i didnt buy my car from a local dealer, so should i just pick one and head over and have a talk about these things? i ask because i feel they may not be as generous to someone who didnt buy from them...

[TommyTSquared]

It shouldn't matter what dealer you bought from as they should treat every GM vehicle (on which they are doing warranty work) the same. Key words here are should. Your best chance is to call around to different dealers or drive to them and talk to the shop manager and see if they have any problems doing work on cars with whatever modifications you're doing.

[Kscarguy]

Sorry if I got wound up. But I think drawing conclusions without data to support both sides of a position is irresponsible.

My father was a service manager for over 30 years at a multi-line GM dealership. He used the common sense approach of the exhaust did not cause the rear end to fail. He was always given the latitude to write up warranty claims so they would pass the GM audits. There were always hot cars coming in the door because the area performance crowd knew he took this approach. Interestingly enough, most of the dissatisfied customers were guys that came in after the local high performance shop sold them something after telling them: “This won’t void your warranty, and his personal favorite, “They (the high performance shop) told me we haven’t heard of anybody else having issues with this modification. They told me this was a factory issue.” If they had called, or stopped by before buying, (this was before the internet) he could have told them “I advise against it based on what the service department had seen.”

Of, course as he states hindsight is 20/20 and most of the time problems with mods either showed up right away, or 24-36 months after installation in his experience. Which is why this is such a touchy subject. Its hard to predict the future.

But I will point out that their were three performance shops started and went under in the his 30 yrs, yet the dealership remained.

That’s why I am getting my dealership involved before I buy performance parts. So if a problem comes up it’s “our” problem. Not just mine.

Can't wait, TPW 2/8/2010. 2SS/RS IOM/IO 6M.

[Screaminz2002]

Originally Posted by Mark H

actually the dealership has the burden of proof that the after market part caused the issue
http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

The dealership doesn't have to prove anything. They are actually a third party between you and General Motors. GM pays them to perform services and repairs on your vehicle which is why dealerships are independently owned and operated. The Service Manager is the one who decides to step out when and if he feels that GM may not pay them for the work under warranty. Believe it or not the dealer actually keeps your broken parts for up to 12 months. At least we did at Ford. With new releases a large majority of the parts were mailed back to Ford along with documentation of the repair. A few were investigated by the area Rep who would question everyone that was involved with the repair. Older models very seldom were looked at.

This is why every dealership is different in their approach to aftermarket warranty claims. Some would rather take the chance of being denied while bringing in large amounts of work. Others would rather make sure their tail is covered on every repair. Really it's up to the Service Manager and the owner's directives to what they will raise a flag to. Sometimes it might even be the mechanic as the service advisor may never even open the hood.