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Old 09-25-2009, 11:54 AM   #1
Mr. Wyndham
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The mighty LSA supercharged V8.

Okay...first of all, nobody's actually confirmed that this engine will make it into the Z28 as-is...Even the LS3 got "altered" when it was transplanted into the Camaro. But it's a decent assumption to make that the LSA will be fitted to the car in some fashion...

So, I encourage you all to read the entire "Story", but I've highlighted the most important parts for those of you will less time or patience in Red. And I added some extra points I've discovered through research in Blue.



MORE IMAGES HERE:
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...ual/09lsa.html

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This thing makes over 350 lb/ft of torque at 1000rpms!!!

Quote:
2010 "LSA" 6.2L V-8 SC (LSA)

2010 Model Year Summary

-Carryover Gen IV Small-Block V-8 for 2010 Cadillac CTS-V
-Gen VI Supercharger with Twin Four-Lobe Rotors
-Integrated Air-to-Liquid Intercooler
-Enhanced Gen IV Cylinder Block
-Hypereutectic Aluminum Pistons with Oil-Spray Cooling
-Lightweight Reciprocating Assembly
-Lower Lift, Low Overlap Cam
-High-Flow Rotacast Cylinder Heads
-Center-Feed Fuel System
-Direct-Mount Ignition Coils
-E67 Control Module
-Upgraded Oiling System
-Revised Accessory Drive
-High-Moly Cast Iron Exhaust Manifolds with Close-Coupled Catalysts
-Acoustic Engine Cover


Full Description of Carryover Features and Benefits

Carryover Gen IV Small-Block V-8 from 2009 model year for 2010 Cadillac CTS-V
The 556-hp 6.2L Supercharged Gen IV V-8 (RPO LSA) is installed longitudinally in the CTS-V, and available with GM's Hydra-Matic 6L90 six-speed automatic or the twin-disc Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual transmission. This engine is assembled in Silao, Mexico.

With 556 horsepower at 6100 rpm and 551 pound-feet or torque at 3800 rpm, certified by the Society of Automotive Engineers, the supercharged LSA V-8 is the most powerful production engine in Cadillac's 106-year history. It makes the CTS-V one of the fastest four-door automobiles in the world, with at least 23 percent more horsepower and 24 percent more torque than benchmark competitors such as the Audi RS4, BMW M3 and Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG, according to published figures.

As significantly, the LSA delivers an excellent balance of low-rev torque and high-rev horsepower, with the smooth, refined operation expected in a luxury brand. The new 6.2L Supercharged LSA takes Cadillac's tradition of outstanding power, performance and impressive refinement to new levels.

Gen VI Supercharger with Twin Four-Lobe Rotors
A state-of-the-art supercharger is key to the 6.2L LSA's remarkable performance. This Gen IV small-block V-8 is equipped with Eaton's Twin Vortices Series (TVS) supercharging technology, which represents the sixth generation of joint Eaton/GM supercharger development. The LSA supercharger displaces 1.9 liters and generates maximum boost pressure of 9.0 pounds per square inch (0.62 bar).

A supercharger is essentially an air pump driven by the engine's crankshaft. It forces more air into the engine's combustion chambers than that engine could otherwise draw on its own. The increased volume of oxygen allows the engine to efficiently process more fuel, and thus generate more power.

The TVS takes supercharging technology to new levels of refinement and efficiency. Each of its two rotors has four distinct lobes, or spiral-shaped vanes that intermesh precisely with those on the other rotor as they spin at high speed. Efficiency gains with the four-lobe rotors are substantial, compared to comparably sized, previous-generation superchargers: Approximately 20 percent more airflow, with an improvement in thermal efficiency up to 15 percent. Moreover, parasitic power loss-the amount of power the engine uses to operate the supercharger-is reduced 35 percent. That improves both the supercharger's response time and the engine's overall efficiency.

With the TVS supercharger, the 6.2L LSA delivers nearly 1.5 horsepower per cubic inch of displacement and specific torque that's at least 18 percent higher than any of its primary competitors. Yet impressive output figures tell only part of the story. The supercharger's large displacement expands its effective range, building power more quickly at low rpm. Its four-lobe rotors spin at over 15,000 rpm, or about two and a half times the engine's rotation speed, to sustain its benefits at high engine speeds, when many superchargers lose their effectiveness. There's no high-rev power drop-off with the LSA.

Nor is there typical supercharger whine-the high-pitched, whizzing sound emanating from a supercharged engine as the rotors spin furiously. The four-lobe rotors help lower noise radiating from the supercharger case as much as 10 decibels, and sound pressure is nearly identical whether or not the supercharger is generating boost. During CTS-V development testing on Germany's 13-mile Nurburgring race course, onlookers were convinced that the LSA had no supercharger, even when it was running at wide-open throttle.

Integrated Air-to-Liquid Intercooler
An advanced intercooling system increases the 6.2L LSA's performance and extends its supercharger's benefits. The engine's charge cooler is integrated in the supercharger case just above the rotors, with a single air-to-liquid cooling "brick" that substantially lower the temperature of air used in the combustion process.

Intercoolers are familiar features on supercharged and turbocharged engines. Similar in concept to an engine's radiator, intercoolers cool the air pumped by the charging device into the cylinders. Cooler air is denser air, which means there is more oxygen in a given volume, resulting in optimal combustion and more power. Traditionally, intercoolers look like small radiators mounted somewhere outside the engine, with air fed into the engine through a plumbing network.

The LSA's intercooling system raises the bar in both packaging and efficiency. It uses a single aluminum tube-and-fin heat exchanger mounted above the rotors in the supercharger case. Air pumped by the supercharger flows directly through the brick and down to the intake ports on the cylinder heads. The intercooler brick is cooled by its own coolant circuit, with a remote pump and 3.02-liter reservoir mounted in front of the CTS-V's radiator.

Bottom line: The temperature of air fed to the LSA's cylinder heads is reduced 158 degrees F (70 degrees C), substantially increasing the amount of oxygen available for the combustion process. (This is more efficient cooling than the LS9, which only drops the air temperature by 140 degrees.)The intercooler design also contributes to the supercharger's quiet operation. The cooling brick helps dampen sound radiating from the supercharger case, while ribs cast into the top of the intercooler housing add strength and reduce vibration.


Enhanced Gen IV Cylinder Block
The 6.2L Gen IV small block has been further refined for the LSA. It's cast from 319-T5 aluminum and fitted with cast-iron cylinder liners

Bulkheads in the LSA engine block have been strengthened 20 percent by optimizing the size of the bulkhead "windows" to take advantage of material thickness in the bulkhead. This is additional improvement beyond a 20% gain obtained in the naturally aspirated 6.2L LS3 V-8 by increasing the radius of the hone over-travel fillets from three to 10 millimeters. The enlarged bulkhead windows also improve bay-to-bay breathing by managing airflow inside the engine more efficiently, thereby decreasing pumping loss, or reducing resistance to the pistons' downward movement. This is nearly identical to the LS9s block treatment! If there is any difference between the two, GM doesn't mention it.

Bulkheads are the structural elements that support the crank bearings. In the LSA, they accommodate six-bolt, cross-threaded main-bearing caps that limit crankshaft flex and stiffen the engine's structure. The caps are nodular iron, specified for its strength, rigidity and minimal vibration.

The cylinder liners are cast into the LSA block and machined with a deck plate installed over the cylinder bores. The deck plate simulates the pressure and minute dimensional changes that occur when the cylinder heads are bolted to the block. The process enhances assembly quality and fit, ensuring precise head sealing, perfect piston ring fit and peak performance as the engine accumulates miles.

Block enhancements initiated with the LSA will be applied to all 6.2L Gen IV engine blocks, including those used for the new LS9 in the 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, the LS3 Corvette V-8 and truck applications. While the Gen IV block shares its 90-degree cylinder angle and 4.4-inch bore centers with GM's original small block V-8, it applies design, casting and machining technologies that were unfathomable when the original was introduced in the 1950s.

The Gen IV block debuted in 2005 as the foundation for the 400-hp LS2 V-8 in the Chevrolet Corvette, Cadillac CTS-V and Pontiac GTO. It was developed with the latest math-based tools and data acquired in GM's racing programs, and it provides an exceptionally light, rigid foundation for an impressively smooth cam-in-block engine. Its deep-skirt design helps maximize strength and minimize vibration, and its aluminum construction reduces weight approximately 100 pounds compared to a conventional cast-iron cylinder block.

Hypereutectic Aluminum Pistons with Oil-Spray Cooling
Superior piston design sets the tone all of the 6.2L LSA's internal components. The engineering objective? Lighter, stronger and smoother.

The pistons themselves are aluminum-cast from a high-silicon alloy developed for its combination of strength and heat-management properties. Casting reduces noise-generating potential, compared to other high-performance piston materials such as forged aluminum, and is specified when NVH control is a priority. The hypereutectic pistons are also lighter than conventional steel, which translates to less reciprocating mass inside the engine. Less mass means greater efficiency, high-rpm capability and a feeling of immediate response as the engine builds revs. The LS9s pistons are made of forged aluminum. The key difference in material choice here, is the desire for refinement in the Cadillac application.

The combustion surface of the LSA pistons, or the top land, lacks the valve-relief pockets typical on high-performance engines with relatively high-lift valves. Rather, the LSA top lands are sumped, with a saucer-shaped indent that dips gradually from the outer edge of the piston. This design promotes a thorough mixing of air and fuel, and along with other durability enhancing features, allows a 9.1:1 compression ratio: higher than a conventional supercharged or turbocharged engine, for improved combustion efficiency.

The durability enhancements include an anodized top land, which reduces wear and helps deflect heat generated during combustion away from the LSA's bottom end. To further reduce wear, the piston skirt is coated with a polymer material, which limits bore scuffing, or abrasion of the cylinder wall over time from the piston's up-down motion. The polymer coating also dampens noise generated by the piston's movement. The wrist pins, which attach the piston to the connecting rod, were developed for maximum durability, with a large outer diameter and a tapered inner diameter. These pins "float" inside the rod bushing and pin bores in the piston barrel. Compared to a conventional fixed pin assembly, in which the connecting rod is fixed to the piston's wrist pin while the pin rotates in the pin bore, the floating pins reduce stress on the pin. They allow tighter pin to pin-bore tolerances and reduce noise generated as the piston moves through the cylinder. The benefit is less engine wear, improved durability and quieter operation.

Finally, the 6.2L LSA represents the first line of small block V-8s equipped with oil-spray piston cooling. Eight oil-squirting jets in the engine block drench the underside of each piston and the surrounding cylinder wall with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil. The oil spray reduces piston temperature, promoting extreme output and long-term durability. The extra layer of oil on the cylinder walls and wristpin also dampens noise emanating from the pistons.

Lightweight Reciprocating Assembly
Careful analysis applied to the pistons extends to other reciprocating parts inside the 6.2L LSA V-8. Whenever possible, GM has trimmed mass, increased strength and reduced friction, enabling the LSA's high-rpm capability (The LSA's redline is at 6200rpms, the LS9s is at 6500rpms), improving overall performance and working to ensure durability.

Within the LSA's cylinder block spins a balanced, dropped-forged steel crankshaft with an eight-bolt flange to mount the flywheel. (The LS9 has a 9-bolt pattern). The eight-bolt pattern increases clamping strength compared to naturally aspirated 6.2L Gen IV V-8s, which use a six-bolt crank flange. At the front end of the crank, the torsional damper is secured with a keyway and friction washer for an added element of security, given the LSA's exceptional torque. The crank design reduces noise a single decibel-small in itself, but significant to overall refinement in a true high-performance luxury sedan.

Forged powder-metal connecting rods mate the crank with the pistons. These rods are forged under extreme pressure from alloy metals reduced to powder, rather the melted to liquid, for a balance of low mass and high strength. They reduce pressure on both the rod-end bearings and main bearings, compared to conventional rods, and allow the bearings to be optimally sized for the least amount of friction.


Lower Lift, Low Overlap Cam
A refined camshaft helps balance the 6.2L LSA's remarkable output with silky, tractable low-rev operation.

The camshaft operates the engine's valves, and its design is crucial to both power and smoothness. The torque enhancing benefits of the supercharger allowed GM engineers to develop a "softer," lower-lift camshaft for the LSA, compared to the typical high-rev, high-power super-sedan engine. The LSA cam delivers maximum lift of 12.2 mm for both the intake and exhaust valves. Moreover, the cam lobes are profiled to reduce the amount of time that both intake and exhaust valves are partially open at the same time. Valve overlap is reduced compared the previous, LS2-powered CTS-V, despite the substantial increase in output. The result is smoother operation at low speeds, and particularly at idle.

The cam design also reduces operating noise compared to the naturally aspirated 6.2L Corvette LS-3 V-8 by one decibel. While the change might not seem significant by itself, it combines with similar incremental improvements through the LSA that reduce interior noise in the 2009 CTS-V substantially compared its predecessor
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:55 AM   #2
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Quote:

High-Flow Roto-Cast Cylinder Heads
The 6.2L Supercharged LSA cylinder heads are similar to those used on the naturally-aspirated 6.2L LS3 Corvette V-8, with enhancements for supercharged induction and maximum durability.

The LSA heads feature a unique "wing'' cast into each intake port to promote a swirling motion that blends the pressurized air-fuel charge. The heads are also cast from a premium A356-T6 alloy, which better manages the heat generated in a supercharged engine. A356-T6 pays particular dividends in the thin bridge area between the intake and exhaust valves, where effective heat dissipation is crucial to both performance and long-term durability. Finally, the LSA heads are rotacast. This process rotates the head mold as the molten alloy cools and essentially eliminates porosity, or microscopic pockets of air trapped in the casting. Rotacasting delivers a stronger part that helps maintain performance and structural integrity over the life of the engine.(The heads are nearly identical between the LS9 and LSA)

Low-friction hydraulic roller lifters actuate the LSA's valves, with unique offset rocker arms for the intake valves. On the inlet rocker, the valve tip is offset six millimeters from the pushrod. This configuration allowed GM engineers to locate the intake port for a more direct air-fuel flow into the combustion chamber. (This feature is also shared between the LSA and LS9)

Valves are among the most heat-stressed parts in an engine, and their wear resistance is crucial to long-term durability. Those in the LSA are manufactured from a high-chromium steel alloy called SilChrome 1 (The only difference between the LSA's exhaust valves, and the LS9s is that the LS9's are filled with sodium for the extra heat protection -- the LS9s intake valves are made of titanium.), with thicker heads than most other Gen IV V-8s. They promote heat transfer away from the valve face and valve guide to the cooler end of the stem, where it more readily dissipates. This maintains a lower, more uniform valve temperature, reducing wear on the valve guide for better alignment and a consistent seal between the valve seat and valve face over the life of the engine. The intake valves measure 55 mm in diameter and the exhaust valves, 44 mm.

Given the LSA's pressurized induction, GM engineers focused special attention on sealing. Head gaskets are extra-robust, four-layer stainless steel, ensuring gasket sealing under the high combustions pressures generated by the LSA.(These gaskets are also used on the LS9, the LS9, though uses mildly stronger head bolts, as well to deal with the extra 70-some hp)

Center-Feed Fuel System
The 6.2L LSA's fuel system was developed to deliver adequate fuel volume precisely, consistently and quietly.

To ensure appropriate fueling in all conditions, from casual cruising to race track-type wide-open throttle, GM has equipped the LSA with a dual- pressure fuel system. The system delivers 250 kPa (about 36 psi) at idle or low speeds. Yet the electronic throttle management system can almost instantaneously increase fuel pressure to 450 kPa (65 psi) for sustained high-speed operation or wide-open throttle. The dual-pressure system reacts according to throttle application, and presents several advantages. It limits the energy used by the fuel pump at low speeds, for maximum efficiency, and it reduces operational noise. It also ensures adequate fuel delivery when the LSA demands its maximum flow rate of 50 grams per second.

The LSA also employs a new center-feed fuel rail that delivers gasoline to the center of the injector rail on each bank. The delivery point is roughly equidistant to each of the injectors, which have a maximum flow rate of 6.52 grams per second at 400 kPa. Fuel pressure variation among the injectors is reduced, and so is noise. The rapid ticking sound often generated by fuel injectors is alleviated.

An 87-mm, single-bore throttle body draws air into the engine. The electronic throttle maps have been optimized for excellent response and modulation in a multitude of driving scenarios.

Direct-Mount Ignition Coils
The 6.2L LSA's coil-on-plug ignition features advanced coils developed for the 7.0L LS7 V-8 in the Corvette Z06. These coils are smaller and lighter than those used on previous small-block V-8s. An individual coil for each spark plug delivers maximum voltage and consistent spark density, with no variation between cylinders.

The LSA ignition system is unique nonetheless, as the coils mount directly on LSA-specific rocker covers. Those on the naturally aspirated 6.2L LS3 and LS7 are joined by a bracket. The individual LSA coils provide a cleaner look and a shorter lead between the coil and the iridium-tip, center-electrode spark plug.

E67 Control Module
An advanced controller manages the multitude of operations that occur within the 6.2L Supercharged LSA V-8 every split second. The E67 is the high-line controller in GM's family of three engine control modules (ECM), which was developed to direct nearly all the engines in GM's line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128 kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. The E67 synchronizes more than 100 functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction control calculations, and it has more computing power than the typical desktop PC 20 years ago. It works more than 50 times faster than the first computers used on internal combustion engines in the late 1970s, which managed five or six functions.

The family strategy behind GM's ECMs allows engineers to apply standard manufacturing and service procedures to all powertrains, and quickly upgrade certain engine technologies while leaving others alone. It creates a solid, flexible, efficient engine-control foundation, freeing engineers to focus on innovations like the LSA’s advanced supercharging technology, and to get them to market more quickly. GM creates all the software for the three ECMs, which share a common language and hardware interface that's tailored to each vehicle.

The E67 also applies a rate-based monitoring protocol sometimes known as run-at-rate diagnostics. Rate-based diagnostics improve the robustness of the Onboard Diagnostics System (OBD II) and ensure optimal performance of emissions control systems. The software increases the frequency at which the ECM checks various systems, and particularly emissions-control systems such as the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors. Rate-based diagnostics more reliably monitor real-word operation of these systems, and allow regulatory agencies to more easily measure and certify emissions compliance. With the E67, the CTS-V's environmental performance matches its race-track potential.

Upgraded Oiling System
To ensure peak, low-friction efficiency, and to promote durability during extended high-rpm operation, the 6.2L Supercharged LSA has a more powerful oil pump than the naturally aspirated 6.2L LS3. Pump capacity increases to 33.8 gallons per minute. The LSA's six-quart oil pan is fitted with a liquid-to-air oil cooler. This is, ironically, a lower oil-capacity than the LS3 and L99s found in the Camaro.

Revised Accessory Drive
The 6.2L LSA's accessory drive system accommodates the supercharger with a third track on the crankshaft pulley. The supercharger is operated by its own belt, which is wider than a conventional belt (eight ribs) to turn the rotors without slip. The other drive belts are conventional five-rib widths, with one operating the air conditioning compressor and another operating the water pump, power steering pump and alternator.

Cast-Iron Exhaust Manifolds with Close-Coupled Catalysts
The 6.2L LSA exhaust manifolds are fabricated from a premium high-silicon, high-moly iron alloy. The material delivers excellent heat management properties, and the design ensures the high flow volume required of an engine with the LSA's capability. Moreover, cast iron radiates less noise than other materials such as stainless steel, making it the preferred choice in a luxury sedan.

Immediately downstream, the exhaust manifolds are fitted with a pair of close-coupled catalytic converters that heat quickly, achieving light-off temperature and closed-loop operations in seconds. The primary catalysts are further downstream under the vehicle floor.

Acoustic Engine Cover
The LSA is trimmed with special engine cover surrounding the intercooler and supercharger case, which is visible under the CTS-V's hood. The cover has "SUPERCHARGED LSA" script on each side, with the V-spec logo and classic Cadillac laurel emblem front-and-center.

The engine cover helps isolate high-frequency sounds emanating from the engine, and it's attached with ball-stud mountings that more effectively limit vibration transfer than conventional twist-in fasteners. It's also lined with dense acoustic foam.


Overview
The 6.2L Supercharged Gen IV LSA V-8's credentials speak for themselves. It's the most powerful production engine in Cadillac's storied history, with 556 horsepower, high-rev capability and higher specific torque than any of its competitors. It makes the Cadillac CTS-V one of the world's fastest, most capable sedans.

A Cadillac, of course, demands smooth, refined operation, and the LSA delivers here, too. Measured by interior noise levels at cruising speed and wide-open throttle, the 2009 CTS-V is substantially quieter than its highly successful predecessor, with cabin noise measurements that meet or beat Europe' best ultra-performance luxury sedans.

Measured by cost-to-performance ratio, the LSA might also be considered a relative bargain. The elegant simplicity in the small-block V-8's DNA means cost-effective development and production, and that translates to value, for customers and the corporation. Yet an emphasis on value overlooks one significant point. The LSA is one of the best high-performance sedan V-8s in the world, regardless of price.

GM's 90-degree small-block car engines remain unique in the automotive world: high-tech, aluminum-intensive, ultra-high-performance cam-in-block V-8s. The LSA adds a supercharger to the mix, and pushes the combination of impressive low end torque and free-breathing, high-rpm horsepower to a new level.

The starting point for the LSA was the first engine built for the sixth-generation Corvette-the Gen IV 6.0L LS2 V-8. The LS2, in turn, had built on two milestone engines: the LS1 and LS6 V-8s developed for the C5 Corvette. Those Gen III engines had introduced a host of leading-edge technologies to the grand tradition of GM's small block, starting with all-aluminum construction, a thermoplastic intake manifold and drive-by-wire electronic throttle. With them the engineers and analysts who claimed cam-in-block engines could not meet the performance demands of a new millennium--or increasingly stringent emissions standards-were proven patently wrong.

Within this evolution, and a data base only tradition can provide, rests the cornerstone of small-block value. The performance in the LSA comes with 76 percent carryover parts from other small-block V-8s, while 25 percent of the new parts are common to the supercharged LS9 V-8 for the 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1. The value is enhanced by GM's advanced application of math-based computer tools. GM engineers created 370 different power simulations to optimize the LS9 and LSA. One simulation takes 24 hours, while one engine build takes nine weeks. Both the LS9 and LSA V-8s met power requirements out of the box. It's value without compromise, in performance, emissions or customer satisfaction.

Regarding quality and durability. The 6.2L Supercharged LSA has been validated beyond 100,000 miles and accumulated more the 6,400 hours of dynamometer testing. It has run over 270 consecutive hours at wide-open throttle without a failure. (The LS9 has only accomplished 100 hours of this sort of testing!!!) It's been road tested in the world's extreme climates and track-tested under racing g loads on some the world's most demanding circuits. It has completed actual and simulated 24-hour track tests.

And if its output and high-speed potential seem to suggest otherwise, the LSA nonetheless requires minimal maintenance. Its advanced iridium-core spark plugs and Dexcool coolant are validated to 100,000 miles of operation, with the same level of performance at 90,000 miles as they deliver at 10,000. The LSA also features GM's advanced Oil Life System. This technology measures stress on the engine and calculates oil life based on real-world use--whether it's profiling or extended, no-limit autobahn blasting--rather than a predetermined mileage interval. The Oil Life System eliminates unnecessary oil changes in vehicles that are driven in light-duty conditions.Each engine/vehicle combo gets it's own tailored Oil Life Monitor algorithm, so the LSA's monitor will provide the same level of accuracy as a 149hp Cobalt.

For all the improvements and advanced technologies built into the 6.2L Supercharged LSA V-8, the bottom line still counts most. This is an ultra-high performance engine, with capabilities suited to one of the best performing sedans in the world.
ENJOY!!!!
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:07 PM   #3
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LSA is 550+ pounds, LS3 is low 400's.

They would be adding a lot of weight to the nose of the car with the LSA.

'reduce weight elsewhere' is a common call for this problem, but that adds up to dollars that people are unwilling to spend in today's economy.

If the LSA does really make it into a Camaro 2 years from now, look for the car to top 4100 pounds.
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:08 PM   #4
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Yes it is a great engine.

If you don't want to wait GM Performance Parts has a bunch in stock ready to ship.

We will do a blow by blow article on installing one in a Camaro.

Robin


This picture was taken for while mocking up the intercooler top. It will need to be modified to clear the cowl.



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Old 09-25-2009, 12:08 PM   #5
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:14 PM   #6
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This has probably already been said in other thread's but why would GM make a Camaro that would compete against the Corvette in price and power output. I dont see them making too many changes to the current Camaro.

Good read though.
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:25 PM   #7
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:27 PM   #8
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Thank you Dragon, this will answer many of the questions that have been asked since the Z28 news came out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meanmike View Post
This has probably already been said in other thread's but why would GM make a Camaro that would compete against the Corvette in price and power output. I dont see them making too many changes to the current Camaro.

Good read though.
GM makes cars that people want(which I love) and there has been quite the outcry for a GT500 eater. When you buy a GT500 rather than a Corvette your only a pulley and a tune away for gobbs more power and the Chevy guys want that too. The Corvette is in a completly different class now days.
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Lawrence View Post
Yes it is a great engine.

If you don't want to wait GM Performance Parts has a bunch in stock ready to ship.

We will do a blow by blow article on installing one in a Camaro.

Robin


This picture was taken for while mocking up the intercooler top. It will need to be modified to clear the cowl.



Very cool Robin. Keep us posted.
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:33 PM   #10
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nice!
Hi Holden, I haven't seen you in a while!
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by alrox View Post
LSA is 550+ pounds, LS3 is low 400's.

They would be adding a lot of weight to the nose of the car with the LSA.

'reduce weight elsewhere' is a common call for this problem, but that adds up to dollars that people are unwilling to spend in today's economy.

If the LSA does really make it into a Camaro 2 years from now, look for the car to top 4100 pounds.
Man, that is quite a weight difference for the front. Current weight of the SS is what, 38XX lbs. Just this engine alone and whatever heavy duty parts they u/g on a Z28 from an SS. It doesn't sound like 4100+ lbs. would be out of the question. That thing will be a tank.
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #12
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Hey - Joe!

You want to take the pics' from the Z28 Sticky and stick in here? There are a bunch that I didn't even post that I left a link for there too. I can do it if you like If you want to, I'll revise my thread and remove them so there's no redundancy.

I read that whole article now, and there's some stuff I don't recall before. Good info' right there.
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:02 PM   #13
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:09 PM   #14
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This has probably already been said in other thread's but why would GM make a Camaro that would compete against the Corvette in price and power output. I dont see them making too many changes to the current Camaro.

Good read though.
IMHO, not sure a Z28 ever has or ever will compete with the Vette, it is a different market segment. Same reason the CTS-V doesn't compete with the Corvette with same HP +/- and price point. Consider the weight & handling differences of all three cars, HP is great but it isn't the final word. The price of said "Z28" will most likely compete with its Mustang rival the Shelby GT500 bringing it in just under or around the Vette Coupe. When you look at what is available off the shelf for GM, the LSA is the most logical choice. The LSA can be had retail for $14,295.95 here http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=249801 The LS3 can be had for around $8,500.00 herehttps://store.gmperformanceparts.com...!--19211709--> At the end of the day this engine upgrade is going to increase the cost on the Camaro at the retail level about $8,000 - 10,000.

Here in Canada a fully dressed 2SS/RS runs around $48,500.00 (before taxes), so if the Z28 comes in around $60,000 it will be in the same ball park price wise as the GT500. The Vette coupe starts at around 80K and Z06 ....103K.
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:12 PM   #15
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dont know if you want to add this attachment to your original post
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File Type: doc LSA spec sheet.doc (48.0 KB, 289 views)
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:29 PM   #16
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IMHO, not sure a Z28 ever has or ever will compete with the Vette, it is a different market segment. Same reason the CTS-V doesn't compete with the Corvette with same HP +/- and price point. Consider the weight & handling differences of all three cars, HP is great but it isn't the final word. The price of said "Z28" will most likely compete with its Mustang rival the Shelby GT500 bringing it in just under or around the Vette Coupe. When you look at what is available off the shelf for GM, the LSA is the most logical choice. The LSA can be had retail for $14,295.95 here http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=249801 The LS3 can be had for around $8,500.00 herehttps://store.gmperformanceparts.com...!--19211709--> At the end of the day this engine upgrade is going to increase the cost on the Camaro at the retail level about $8,000 - 10,000.

Here in Canada a fully dressed 2SS/RS runs around $48,500.00 (before taxes), so if the Z28 comes in around $60,000 it will be in the same ball park price wise as the GT500. The Vette coupe starts at around 80K and Z06 ....103K.
All correct except for the fact that there is a base Vette that start's at $48,000 wich would fall in that category and then the fact that the track time's of them would be close, real close.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:21 PM   #17
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But you're assuming that people are going to cross-shop the Z28 and Corvette. As many people have said in the past, and I was/am one of them, just because two cars have a similar price point or power output, it does not make them competitors.

While there are a lot of people on this and other performance forums who would rather buy a Corvette than a Camaro, if the price point was near the same, there are a lot more that realize that they are two completely different cars built for two different purposes. Personally, I don't think a Z28 version of a Camaro, even at close to the same price and power output, is going to cut into the sales of base Corvettes. And certainly not the Z06.

I did not buy a GT500 because I could not afford a Corvette, nor did I buy it because I thought it offered better performance. I bought it because it was the vehicle that best suited my desires/needs at this point in my life.

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Old 09-25-2009, 04:28 PM   #18
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But you're assuming that people are going to croos-shop the Z28 and Corvette. As many people have said in the past, and I was/am one of them, just because two cars have a similar price point or power output, it does not make them competitors.

While there are a lot of people on this and other performance forums who would rather buy a Corvette than a Camaro, if the price point was near the same, there are a lot more that realize that they are two completely different cars built for two different purposes. Personally, I don't think a Z28 version of a Camaro, even at close to the same price and power output, is going to cut into the sales of base Corvettes. And certainly not the Z06.

I did not buy a GT500 because I could not afford a Corvette, nor did I buy it because I thought it offered better performance. I bought it because it was the vehicle that best suited my desires/needs at this point in my life.
Great points
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:32 PM   #19
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But you're assuming that people are going to croos-shop the Z28 and Corvette. As many people have said in the past, and I was/am one of them, just because two cars have a similar price point or power output, it does not make them competitors.

While there are a lot of people on this and other performance forums who would rather buy a Corvette than a Camaro, if the price point was near the same, there are a lot more that realize that they are two completely different cars built for two different purposes. Personally, I don't think a Z28 version of a Camaro, even at close to the same price and power output, is going to cut into the sales of base Corvettes. And certainly not the Z06.

I did not buy a GT500 because I could not afford a Corvette, nor did I buy it because I thought it offered better performance. I bought it because it was the vehicle that best suited my desires/needs at this point in my life.
Good point.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:36 PM   #20
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All correct except for the fact that there is a base Vette that start's at $48,000 wich would fall in that category and then the fact that the track time's of them would be close, real close.
Seriously?, 48K, that just pisses me off even more, here are the starting prices in Canada, and 66K for the coupe gets you and engine and tires. Having said that, if the Z28 sold here in Canada for 60-65K then it would be edging in on the Vette.... entry level Vette verses top dog Camaro.

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Old 09-25-2009, 04:37 PM   #21
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Someone with more knowledge about this please set me straight, but I thought
Hypereutectic pistons were inferior to forged pistons where higher power out-put
was concerned? That they couldn't handle some of the power add-ons as well as forged pistons could...
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:41 PM   #22
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Seriously?, 48K, that just pisses me off even more, here are the starting prices in Canada, and 66K for the coupe gets you and engine and tires. Having said that, if the Z28 sold here in Canada for 60-65K then it would be edging in on the Vette.... entry level Vette verses top dog Camaro.

Attachment 57985
Ouch! Yep very serious though. I imagine you can go to the US site so here's a link.

http://www.chevrolet.com/
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:53 PM   #23
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Someone with more knowledge about this please set me straight, but I thought
Hypereutectic pistons were inferior to forged pistons where higher power out-put
was concerned? That they couldn't handle some of the power add-ons as well as forged pistons could...
This is correct. But this probably doesn't come into play unless we are talking 700+rwhp.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:56 PM   #24
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Yes it is a great engine.

If you don't want to wait GM Performance Parts has a bunch in stock ready to ship.

We will do a blow by blow article on installing one in a Camaro.

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This picture was taken for while mocking up the intercooler top. It will need to be modified to clear the cowl.


what about throwing a different hood on robin? speaking of which... still waiting on that email....
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Old 09-25-2009, 05:06 PM   #25
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Hypereutectics are better now, I believe. They still aren't as good as forged slugs in the LS9, but they're better than the past.
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