Camaro VS Mustang Mega Thread

[Bad70supreme]

Lets get real here, the old 302 fox body was slow! Even after headers, cam, intake whatever... what did they run on the strip 13s! All the cars in that era, camaro, mustange, were ****ing SLOW! They came with SMOG engines making a hole 200 lame ass horse power! Ya fox bodys were fast, but the only fast fox bodys had friken motor swaps, the car that had some real power was the GNX after some mods! So it took a ford to come up with a supercharged engine to finally make the mustange fast since the ****ing 60s, and finally they built a N/A 302 to be respectable. This is crazy, who keeps mustanges and camaros stock anyway! Who cares the new stock 302 can edge the SS in the 1/4... after you start modding its all who put the most money in ther car wins! Thats it For years whos been running the streets for real, ANY car with a hole lot of cash in it!

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by 08-G35s/6MT

The 1980 Fox Body Mustang:

The venerable 5.0 liter V8 was replaced with a new 4.9 liter V8 ( 255 cubic inches ) which produced an uninspiring 119 horsepower.
The 2.8 liter V6 was replaced with a 3.3 liter V6 which could be had with 91 - 94 horsepower,depending on whether you chose the automatic or the standard transmission. Although horsepower was down slightly, additional torque from the bigger engine made up most of the defecit in responsiveness.
The standard 2.3 liter inline 4 cylinder remained and produced 88 to 90 horsepower depending on the transmission choice.
The factory performance motor for the 1980 Mustang became the 2.3 liter turbocharged inline 4 cylinder which continued to produce 132 horsepower.
Many V8 Mustang fans, were understandably put off, by what looked like the planned end of the V8 Mustang!


Read my comments, I never said n/a anywhere earlier...



I joke with my friend who is obsessed with Fox Body Stangs, no hard feelings... Dont get me wrong, I like F-Body Stangs alot more than the jelly bean looking generation(1994-1998) and a helluva lot more than the Mustang II Ford Pinto ripoff, theyre cool, just not THAT fast when they first came out. Ford offering a 4 cylinder option more powerful than the Windsor 5.0 was a slap in the face to loyalists...

Gotcha I also didn't see where you'd mentioned the 4cyl SVT so I took it as sarcasm. I never really got into the older, carburated 302's. The fuel injected version, 86 - 93, produced more than 119hp though.

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by MatchbookSS

5th Gen still looks better.

I prefer the Mustang but I'm one of those that instantly loved the 5th Gen Camaro. It wasn't what I had expected but a flat out beautiful car nonetheless.

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

Lets get real here, the old 302 fox body was slow! Even after headers, cam, intake whatever... what did they run on the strip 13s! All the cars in that era, camaro, mustange, were ****ing SLOW! They came with SMOG engines making a hole 200 lame ass horse power! Ya fox bodys were fast, but the only fast fox bodys had friken motor swaps, the car that had some real power was the GNX after some mods! So it took a ford to come up with a supercharged engine to finally make the mustange fast since the ****ing 60s, and finally they built a N/A 302 to be respectable. This is crazy, who keeps mustanges and camaros stock anyway! Who cares the new stock 302 can edge the SS in the 1/4... after you start modding its all who put the most money in ther car wins! Thats it For years whos been running the streets for real, ANY car with a hole lot of cash in it!

You're right. By today's standards, they were slow. It's points like yours that often make me wonder where it will end. You have bone stock muscle cars running what their very modded predecessors were running back in the late 80's/early 90's. Being able to have a tune emailed to you that you can upload into your car for 25-30 more hp is some pretty cool shit IMO. We didn't even have the internet back then...

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

Who cares the new stock 302 can edge the SS in the 1/4... after you start modding its all who put the most money in ther car wins!

I think the new 5.0 engine responds better to mods than the engines in the SS Camaros. Sure stock vs stock the 5.0 edges it out, but put DRs and a tune on both and the gap gets bigger. Guys have ran 11s in 5.0s with a tune and DRs, I haven't seen a Camaro do that yet.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by 08-G35s/6MT

The 1980 Fox Body Mustang:

The venerable 5.0 liter V8 was replaced with a new 4.9 liter V8 ( 255 cubic inches ) which produced an uninspiring 119 horsepower.
The 2.8 liter V6 was replaced with a 3.3 liter V6 which could be had with 91 - 94 horsepower,depending on whether you chose the automatic or the standard transmission. Although horsepower was down slightly, additional torque from the bigger engine made up most of the defecit in responsiveness.

the 3.3 liter (200cu.in) was an inline six not a v6 it was offered 1980-1982. it had 88hp.

the 255 was a 4.2liter.

[08-G35s/6MT]

Originally Posted by assasinator

the 3.3 liter (200cu.in) was an inline six not a v6 it was offered 1980-1982. it had 88hp.

the 255 was a 4.2liter.

Oh, my bad man I didn't even notice that, wow... I didn't remember the EXACT stats of the Fox Body, so i looked it up. Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

I think the new 5.0 engine responds better to mods than the engines in the SS Camaros. Sure stock vs stock the 5.0 edges it out, but put DRs and a tune on both and the gap gets bigger. Guys have ran 11s in 5.0s with a tune and DRs, I haven't seen a Camaro do that yet.

Tune for tune yes.

But both are making ~430 rwhp with full exhaust and tune.

5.0 gets more form the tune (rev limiter raise, it already has decent tubular manifolds), LS3 gets more from the headers.

And yes the gap will widen when the camaro increases power levels when and if the 60fts do not match. We all know it is not the easiest car to track with IRS and rolling on dubs.

The one person to run with 17 inch bogarts and full exhaust with an LS3 SS has hit 11.6 full weight. Trap 114-116. Stock gears as well. He is listed at 11.7 on the fast list and went as quick as 11.6 but had no slip for it. And you have to remember how poorly geared the car is to start with. 4.10's would really wake the car up and still be less aggressive than the 3.73 gear option/set up in the 5.0.

Has an M6 FULL WEIGHT 5.0 beat that by more than .3 tenths yet with just bolt ons? I knew the EVO car got to ~10.9 with 600lbs weight reduction...the race weight was 3090. I know the Livernois Auto car did very well.

Has an M6, bolt on, full weight, pump gas 5.0 ran faster than 11.3? (larger than the stock gap between the cars @ ~.3 tenths?)

The 5.0 keeps a .2-3 tenth edge....the gap does not widen if the camaro can 60.

Tune for tune...yes I do agree the gap widens.

[Bad70supreme]

There is NO way the new 5.0 ENGINE resonds better to mods, they only edge out the camaro down the 1/4 because the are setup with smaller wheels and wiegh less! The LS3 is a true monster, and its been proven to put the camaro in the 11s with nothing but headers and a tune, with lighter wheels! What do you have to back up your statment, I would put my money on the LS3 in a back to back engine dyno test any day!

[assasinator]

this 2011 mustang vs 2010+SS is so tired.

in dyno rat form the ls3 has an edge in power. who knows in the future. there are too many changes both makes are doing. and what if dodge has a 3200lb platform in the works. we are all second fiddle then.


392>ls3>coyote when stock.

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

There is NO way the new 5.0 ENGINE resonds better to mods, they only edge out the camaro down the 1/4 because the are setup with smaller wheels and wiegh less! The LS3 is a true monster, and its been proven to put the camaro in the 11s with nothing but headers and a tune, with lighter wheels! What do you have to back up your statment, I would put my money on the LS3 in a back to back engine dyno test any day!

we dont know what a 5 liter will be when fully modded. nobody has done it. there is not a single H/C/I motor out there. the only H/I car made 441rwhp in an automatic.

so far the autos are 15-20 rwhp less than a manual at 370rwhp levels.

i think its a close wash. i have a Boss302 intake manifold ordered. i will be one of the first cam only cars when cams get here. im gonna bet you i get 435-450rwhp from full exhaust, Lt's, Boss302 intake, CAI, throttle body.

others are getting 435rwhp from what is availble now. rumor is, ford says the boss manifold is worth 30hp. the stock coyote manifold is a TORQUE manifold, not a top end power manifold.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by assasinator

this 2011 mustang vs 2010+SS is so tired.

in dyno rat form the ls3 has an edge in power. who knows in the future. there are too many changes both makes are doing. and what if dodge has a 3200lb platform in the works. we are all second fiddle then.


392>ls3>coyote when stock.



we dont know what a 5 liter will be when fully modded. nobody has done it. there is not a single H/C/I motor out there. the only H/I car made 441rwhp in an automatic.

so far the autos are 15-20 rwhp less than a manual at 370rwhp levels.

i think its a close wash. i have a Boss302 intake manifold ordered. i will be one of the first cam only cars when cams get here. im gonna bet you i get 435-450rwhp from full exhaust, Lt's, Boss302 intake, CAI, throttle body.

others are getting 435rwhp from what is availble now. rumor is, ford says the boss manifold is worth 30hp. the stock coyote manifold is a TORQUE manifold, not a top end power manifold.

The 440rwhp automatic livernois mustang that had heads and intake also had high compression pistons and also race gas. They also got no power gain from the heads either....and lost torque. When and if they do cams in that car it is out of the hunt anyway. It has modified internals and is not using pump gas.

Weird that an intake manifold will help so much on a stock motor. Changing the LS3 intake out when you have stock cams is worth maybe 10 hp. IT is amazing that they are claiming 30 hp on a stock motor.. They probably mean 30hp when tuned. Very odd...usually a stock intake is sufficient with stock cams/internals etc...thats what it was designed for in the first place. I would guess 435-450 rwhp. ~430 full exhaust and tune. Throttle body and intake should add another ~15. Im not wasting my time and money finding out with my car....im doing the TB and intake when I do heads and cam.

But yeah I agree the argument is so old. I regretted my post right after I did it lol.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The 440rwhp automatic livernois mustang that had heads and intake also had high compression pistons and also race gas. They also got no power gain from the heads either....and lost torque. When and if they do cams in that car it is out of the hunt anyway. It has modified internals and is not using pump gas.

Weird that an intake manifold will help so much on a stock motor. Changing the LS3 intake out when you have stock cams is worth maybe 10 hp. IT is amazing that they are claiming 30 hp on a stock motor.. They probably mean 30hp when tuned. Very odd...usually a stock intake is sufficient with stock cams/internals etc...thats what it was designed for in the first place. I would guess 435-450 rwhp. ~430 full exhaust and tune. Throttle body and intake should add another ~15. Im not wasting my time and money finding out with my car....im doing the TB and intake when I do heads and cam.

But yeah I agree the argument is so old. I regretted my post right after I did it lol.

On my phone, excuse my short comment: I'm not sure about 30hp from just an intake mani. Seems high. However, big gains may be possible and attributed to the stock manifold not flowing well enough up top to take advantage of the raised limiter the boss sees. I've heard the heads outflow the mani by a lot. Just a guess. We'll see.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

There is NO way the new 5.0 ENGINE resonds better to mods, they only edge out the camaro down the 1/4 because the are setup with smaller wheels and wiegh less! The LS3 is a true monster, and its been proven to put the camaro in the 11s with nothing but headers and a tune, with lighter wheels! What do you have to back up your statment, I would put my money on the LS3 in a back to back engine dyno test any day!

Here is a video from Steeda of a tuned and DR equipped 5.0 breaking into the 11s.

http://www.stangtv.com/news/video-20...ld-air-intake/

So how can the LS3 be such a "monster" and respond better than the 5.0 to mods when it needs a tune, DRs, and headers to break into the 11s?

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Here is a video from Steeda of a tuned and DR equipped 5.0 breaking into the 11s.

http://www.stangtv.com/news/video-20...ld-air-intake/

So how can the LS3 be such a "monster" and respond better than the 5.0 to mods when it needs a tune, DRs, and headers to break into the 11s?

I would assume it's because of the 300lbs weight advantage that the headers (which conveniently seems to net a 30 rwhp gain) must overcome to hit 11s.