The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[coolman]

Originally Posted by BigDan

What is so hard about throwing a set of sticky tires under these high hp car's? Supersnakes and ZR1's are good for 10's all day with the tires I roll around on everyday in my sig pic. Tires are the cheap and the key to hooking up all this power, or buying an AWD.

The difference is much more than just going down a drag strip. I would not expect to need to buy more mods to make a car stick that I paid $60,000 for. I had a 2010 GT500 and even with 540Hp it wouldn't hook up. I love how everyone always says "all you have to do is buy one of these or tune that or get slicks." I don't count mods in these discussions because modding can take any car to any level if you have enough money. The greatest cars are the ones that don't need modded to make them perform ,and that's why that cost so much.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

What the hell is Ford thinking announcing this TWO FULL YEARS ahead of time!?!
And $60,000? Hmmmmm.....

2012 Mustang GT's are on lots now and GT500's aren't far behind. The 2013 GT500 will be on lots in about a year, which is very close to when the Camaro ZL1 is expected on lots. The ZL1 is never seriously going to do battle against the existing GT500.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by syr74

2012 Mustang GT's are on lots now and GT500's aren't far behind. The 2013 GT500 will be on lots in about a year, which is very close to when the Camaro ZL1 is expected on lots. The ZL1 is never seriously going to do battle against the existing GT500.

I didn't ask if it was.....

As I said a few posts ago, the OP article quoted 20 months. That's where my comment came from. Good luck to them at $60,000, though....I think they're going to need it...

It seems fairly obvious to me that Ford will stop at nothing to attract as much attention as possible away from Camaro...which is to be expected, I don't begrudge them that. It'll be interesting to see if it pays off, though...

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I didn't ask if it was.....

As I said a few posts ago, the OP article quoted 20 months. That's where my comment came from. Good luck to them at $60,000, though....I think they're going to need it...

It seems fairly obvious to me that Ford will stop at nothing to attract as much attention as possible away from Camaro...which is to be expected, I don't begrudge them that. It'll be interesting to see if it pays off, though...

Ford is venturing into new territory with the 2013 GT500, as I really don't think the ZL1 is the target for this car.....it's meant to be something a bit different. That said, I think Ford could go well over 60k with the right Mustang and sell every one they build within reason. I strongly suspect that the 2013 GT500 will be considered a better deal at 60k than the 2011 was at 50k.

[CRChevy]

^uhm what?????


chevy got slapped in the face the new gt500 is goinna be king of the road.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by syr74

Ford is venturing into new territory with the 2013 GT500, as I really don't think the ZL1 is the target for this car.....it's meant to be something a bit different. That said, I think Ford could go well over 60k with the right Mustang and sell every one they build within reason. I strongly suspect that the 2013 GT500 will be considered a better deal at 60k than the 2011 was at 50k.

Maybe. But I'm no more interested in a 60 grand Mustang than I am in a Boss...both are just simply out of the question in my situation.

Given the demographic information that's been discussed these past years about people purchasing high performance vehicles in the 50,000 range, like the Corvette, it's become something of a tipping-point. Once cars exceed that ceiling, it becomes harder and harder to sell them in any meaningful volume, no matter what the value or ability. An even more exclusive model than the current GT500 doesn't quite fit the bill of what the Mustang is in my mind...but, then, I'm not a Mustang officianado and don't pretend to be...

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Maybe. But I'm no more interested in a 60 grand Mustang than I am in a Boss...both are just simply out of the question in my situation.

Given the demographic information that's been discussed these past years about people purchasing high performance vehicles in the 50,000 range, like the Corvette, it's become something of a tipping-point. Once cars exceed that ceiling, it becomes harder and harder to sell them in any meaningful volume, no matter what the value or ability. An even more exclusive model than the current GT500 doesn't quite fit the bill of what the Mustang is in my mind...but, then, I'm not a Mustang officianado and don't pretend to be...

It doesn't matter if everyone wants that trim level. That's the whole point of having so many trim levels. They don't have to get everyone to want it, they just have to get 5,000 a year to want it, or whatever the figure may be. The rest of the mustang shoppers can choose from the other 3 trim levels. I doubt it will be 60k anyway.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Maybe. But I'm no more interested in a 60 grand Mustang than I am in a Boss...both are just simply out of the question in my situation.

Given the demographic information that's been discussed these past years about people purchasing high performance vehicles in the 50,000 range, like the Corvette, it's become something of a tipping-point. Once cars exceed that ceiling, it becomes harder and harder to sell them in any meaningful volume, no matter what the value or ability. An even more exclusive model than the current GT500 doesn't quite fit the bill of what the Mustang is in my mind...but, then, I'm not a Mustang officianado and don't pretend to be...

To be blunt, while I expect the new GT500 to be more expensive, that is one item I can't speak to with any authority.....it could sticker for exactly the same as the current model for all I know. But no, I don't think the Mustang is hampered at all North of 50k and I think Ford will have no problem moving 5k a year for two years so long as the car is worthy.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

It doesn't matter if everyone wants that trim level. That's the whole point of having so many trim levels. They don't have to get everyone to want it, they just have to get 5,000 a year to want it, or whatever the figure may be. The rest of the mustang shoppers can choose from the other 3 trim levels. I doubt it will be 60k anyway.

I don't doubt it at all. They seem to keep changing rather significant portions of this car every year...they aren't exempt from the rules of automotive manufacturing (consider everything that's effected by an output of this kind of power) -- and that's not cheap. This hasn't been reflected in their price points, which leads me to believe they've justified eating some profit in order to one-up their competitors at the same price...

And I realize how supply and demand works with these sorts of cars - I'm sure it will sell, just not in the same volume the current GT500 has...what I'm trying to say is that in my eyes -- a 60k "exclusive" Mustang isn't...a Mustang. Which was a comment in response to a thought about the direction Ford is taking...I'm having a difficult time figuring out what the "direction" is...

You hear it all the time (and its not smoke and mirrors), that Chevy didn't transplant an LS9 into the Camaro because a 60+k pony car won't sell like they want it to...it won't be a Camaro anymore...so it's weird to look at Ford doing the exact opposite.

And no, before anyone plays the "fanboy" card; I'm not saying either camp is right or wrong....current events prove they have almost never done anything the same as one another...it's just interesting to me to see this particular diversion in philosophy...

[JusticePete]

The discussion is interesting, but all that matters if the number of units sold. At the moment, the Camaro is out selling the Mustang. Regardless of the HP or models or whatever right now the Camaro is winning. With the new vert out I expect the Camaro to outsell the mustang again in the 2011 model year. Consumers vote with their wallets and those votes count more than opinions.

The flip side of this is that the Mustang has been in continuous production since the first in 1964. Ford has won by that measure which again is a function of number of units sold.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I don't doubt it. They seem to keep changing rather significant portions of this car every year...they aren't exempt from the rules of automotive manufacturing -- and that's not cheap. Which goes double for a new rendition of it's one-off engine...This kind of power will then need to see the whole drivetrain revisited, and all other manner of secondary systems that may be effected.

It's not the same engine, and don't assume that the engine is more expensive just because it's newer.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

And I realize how supply and demand works with these sorts of cars...what I'm trying to say is that in my eyes -- a 60k "exclusive" Mustang isn't...a Mustang. Which was a comment in response to a thought about the direction Ford is taking...I'm having a difficult time figuring out what the "direction" is.

I disagree, Mustang isn't just an affordable 2+2, it's more than that and long has been.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

You hear it all the time, that Chevy didnt plop a LS9 into the Camaro because a 60+k pony car won't sell like they want it to...it won't be a Camaro anymore...so it's weird to look at Ford doing the exact opposite.

I agree here, the Camaro and Mustang are, in some ways, more different than they get credit for. Mustang is Ford's take on the same concept the 911 covers for Porsche in a less expensive car. To wit, it can and likely will cover a wide range of offerings in terms of price and performance.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The discussion is interesting, but all that matters if the number of units sold. At the moment, the Camaro is out selling the Mustang. Regardless of the HP or models or whatever right now the Camaro is winning. With the new vert out I expect the Camaro to outsell the mustang again in the 2011 model year. Consumers vote with their wallets and those votes count more than opinions.

The flip side of this is that the Mustang has been in continuous production since the first in 1964. Ford has won by that measure which again is a function of number of units sold.

I'll disagree with the beginning on your post outright and point out that even you hint at what I am getting at in the latter portion of your post. Ford has made it clear that, barring the company going under, the Mustang will be here no matter what. Ford's pony has the eternal, golden get out of jail free card because, no matter how few they sell, this car along with the F-150 are simply too tied in with Ford historically to go away. As much as the Mustang is a Ford, it is Ford, and Ford knows it.

The Camaro is doing very well, much better than I predicted at this point in fact and it is very obvious that Chevy nailed the segment they were looking for. But, to be fair, they can't make the same promise to Chevy fans that Ford has to their fans with a straight face given the fact that Camaro just came back from a roughly decade long vacation.

As such, I think Mustang fans everywhere would disagree that better sales right now translate into a win for the enthusiast for obvious reasons.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by syr74

It's not the same engine, and don't assume that the engine is more expensive just because it's newer.

I'm not assuming -- it's just some simple logic on my part for the purposes of speculation. More power = More $$$....in just a little more detail, they're going to need stronger parts to hand the higher powers under a factory warranty, the TVS units are more expensive than the old pieces they replaced several years ago, and the powertrain/transmission/etc that will need to be upgraded to go with it will be more expensive. There's just no escaping it.

And I didn't know this was a "new" engine. The article posted made it sound like they massaged the 5.4L

Originally Posted by syr74

I disagree, Mustang isn't just an affordable 2+2, it's more than that and long has been.

Can you elaborate on that? I can accept everything up to the current GT500 as "affordable"...beyond that, while I understand the Mustang is Ford's only high-performance vehicle at the moment, I begin question the thought process...

Originally Posted by syr74

I agree here, the Camaro and Mustang are, in some ways, more different than they get credit for. Mustang is Ford's take on the same concept the 911 covers for Porsche in a less expensive car. To wit, it can and likely will cover a wide range of offerings in terms of price and performance.

Yes. They are much different. While raised of the same automotive soup...these two cars have evolved very differently over time. Nowadays, Chevy has the unique problem of trying to balance both priorities and resources between the Camaro and the Vette. While the Mustang has the advantage of Ford's full and uninterrupted attention.

Gosh....I'd love to write a book on how things have changed....

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The discussion is interesting, but all that matters if the number of units sold. At the moment, the Camaro is out selling the Mustang. Regardless of the HP or models or whatever right now the Camaro is winning. With the new vert out I expect the Camaro to outsell the mustang again in the 2011 model year. Consumers vote with their wallets and those votes count more than opinions.

The flip side of this is that the Mustang has been in continuous production since the first in 1964. Ford has won by that measure which again is a function of number of units sold.

I had considered alluding to this before...Despite the plethora of upgrades the Mustang's received since 2009, Camaro is still outselling it. And despite the automotive media's swooning, the public is displaying a higher interest in Camaro as well...I don't think a limited-appeal Boss, or a steroidal GT500 is going to change that dynamic very much; while they're both very nice cars. (One being nothing more than a bit less than 'official', at this point).

But...as you so eloquently said: -- Mustang was here first; And has never left.

[CoolestCamaro873]

a 2011 svt performance gt500 w/ 550hp is not nearly as fast in a straight line as it should be all that power is useless if you can't hook it up. i have no reason to believe the results wont be any different from the blue oval camp when adding 50+ hp. i mean it lost to a base corvette in straight line performance, not that the vette is a slouch, but even a cts-v beats it.

and at 60k i say good luck to ford with that one believe it or not the 10k difference in base price will effect sales especially in this economy. i'm sure the car will look nice though, i'm sick of the mustang look already so making it more modern won't hurt.