E85 TUNE RESULT!!

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

look at the tq only starting at 2600k rpm!! stock cars are like in the 190-200 ish starting at 2600rpm??

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.47 2.60 120.04 242.48 12.81 -- NICE GAIN FROM HERE
0.64 2.70 124.79 242.75 12.61
0.81 2.80 129.55 243.01 12.63
0.97 2.90 134.08 242.82 12.71
1.15 3.00 139.48 244.20 12.77
1.32 3.10 143.67 243.41 12.85
1.49 3.20 147.54 242.16 12.95
1.67 3.30 150.96 240.26 12.97
1.83 3.40 154.96 239.37 12.95
2.01 3.50 159.97 240.05 12.93
2.18 3.60 164.28 239.67 12.96 -- TO HERE Very
2.36 3.70 169.59 240.73 12.98
2.53 3.80 175.17 242.11 12.98
2.70 3.90 179.39 241.59 12.98
2.87 4.00 182.80 240.02 12.96
3.05 4.10 186.03 238.31 12.95
3.22 4.20 188.73 236.01 12.96

No doubt your TQ peaked earlier and it was a very nice gain. So maybe I'm confused, but was the first set of data with Vince's new tune for 93 octane with the cam phasing or was it from the older tune without? I was assuming it was before the cam phasing and if it is, I wonder if those low rpm torque gains are the result of that more than the e85. Either way, they are very nice gains and you probably have the most powerful NA LLT out there. Good job! Overall I give this a . Now get back and it and win me some popcorn!

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by DietCoke

Looks completley normal. Torque is huge increase, that motor just peaks early, so it's misleading. 3-4% is all E85 is worth over gasoline, and that's about what you're seeing.

The car is super lean, though. Like, oh my god it's going to blow up lean. Get that fixed. Most E85 cars are happy around 10.5 or 11:1. Rarely one will make better power close to 12:1, but you're WAY out of the ballpark. The reason your timing is ****ed up (yes, -2 retard is WAY ****ed up) is because you don't have enough fuel. Add a shitload of fuel, and add timing with it, and your engine will not only run safer, your power will increase.


PS: Get a tuner who has a clue about ethanol.

Your comment is very interesting. One thing I dont agree with you is the timing. Some cars like timing and some dont. E85 has faster flame rate than gasoline so theres no need to start the burn early by advancing. I know plenty of cars that want less timing, sometimes as much as -7 retard on e85.

The tune I first went in with was actually bumped up to +9* and showed a very good AF around low 12's to 11's, but made less power. I don't know about 10's. That is waaaay too rich, but is something I will bring up once our tuner get back from vacation.

Unfortunately, we only have one tuner. Check this dyno run out tho..

[KMPrenger]

Agreed...that low end TQ looks very sweet, your a good 30 or more TQ higher than stock or lightly modded LLTs at that range....so hey the E85 project was no faiilure thats forsure.

I also agree, you probably do have the most powerful N/A LLT at the moment....at least from what I've seen here on Camaro5.

Congrats my man! lol

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Hey, one more thing. Do you have the WinPep software and the run files? If so, change the correction to SAE and see what it looks like.

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

No doubt your TQ peaked earlier and it was a very nice gain. So maybe I'm confused, but was the first set of data with Vince's new tune for 93 octane with the cam phasing or was it from the older tune without? I was assuming it was before the cam phasing and if it is, I wonder if those low rpm torque gains are the result of that more than the e85. Either way, they are very nice gains and you probably have the most powerful NA LLT out there. Good job! Overall I give this a . Now get back and it and win me some popcorn!

The 1st dyno was with vince's newest tune with cam phasing, and my long tube with no cats, and full exhaust. Yes.. the dyno read very very low for all those mods only showing 264 to the wheels, and I got all my dyno print out today too.
Even the owner of the shop told me that their dyno read lower from day one. They have the fastest lexus in the world and are used to dynoing 1000hp turbo cars all day! so with their 2000hp rated dyno it will usually read lower than the smaller dynojet.
Imagine if I would have dynoed on a dyno that stock cars see the sometimes 250-260 numbers, I would of had or would probably hit very very close to 300rwhp. So even tho the gain was only about 20hp, the total gain is very solid.

The early peak come from additional valve timing that vince tweaked just for this e85 tune, but I think the outcome is very different than what we intended. One thing for sure is that it defenitely pushed all of its tq to a very low RPM band. Which is something our LLT can defenitely use.

If I would of had anything other than this crappy stock intake today.. I think even with the low reading dyno I probably would of been at or very close to 300.

[rolnslo]

I really wonder how much the stock intake is limiting the gains here? The gains shown are great but how much better would they be with an Injen or Vararam intake installed. The mods you've done so far allow the exhaust side of the engine to breathe better but how much restriction is there in getting air into the engine?

The gains so far look great. Can't wait to see how things go once you can ditch that stock intake....

[Gxproadster]

Nice gains the more you mod the more gains you'll see from e85

[bmorecam]

I forgot to thank you gretchen.. I never knew that I can download the run file and use it in my own living room. When I do SAE correction every number get lower to about 5-6. Is that about right?

Prenger, if we are talking about all motor, than I dont mind taking the most powerful LLT all motor class title.

after I put on the vararam, maybe I should take my car to a dyno that I know it will read stock cars in the 250-260 range so I can make "some" peoples happy with 300+ rwhp

[Gxproadster]

Any gain over 93 oct is a gain
A gain In Hp is a gain in hp
Nobody can really argue if it would b worth it or not it still makes more hp on e85 then 93

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

I really wonder how much the stock intake is limiting the gains here? The gains shown are great but how much better would they be with an Injen or Vararam intake installed. The mods you've done so far allow the exhaust side of the engine to breathe better but how much restriction is there in getting air into the engine?

The gains so far look great. Can't wait to see how things go once you can ditch that stock intake....

Depends on how much the particular intake put down initially. For instance, if I dyno extra 20 rwhp with VR than it will probably be about 10 +extra with my mods. Can't remember how much percentage it loses, but I think its about right. The main thing with the stock intake is the heatsoak. It will easily get up to 130+ IAT by just sitting when I was on the dyno today, the stock IAT was like 120, and didnt even bother to look at it after I seen those numbers. Its nothing new with stock intake.

[bmorecam]

GXP, now I know why I was feeling the rush in the lower rpm's..all the damn torque is between 2k and 3+kI guess my butt dyno was not wrong, it was just in the better place
Another thing I want to add is that by doing the pulls between 3rd and 4th there are about 8 extra tq and 5hp difference. The 3rd gear pull show a difference of 20+ tq extra across the lower rpm with e85 with e85.

So there's defenitely a much bigger gain in 3rd gear vs 4th.

[Amenti]

These are encouraging results. It's nice to see some gains out of the E85, and I'm sure Vince has some room to tweak the tune and possibly see some more gains.

The increased torque at low RPM must be what you were feeling on your butt-dyno.

And, there's something to be said for having one of, if not the, most powerful Camaro V6 to date =P

[KMPrenger]

If you keep your E85 tune for now, and you add the VR intake...I would say take it back to the same place again.

Yeah it would be sweet to take it to a dyno that reads a bit higher and maybe help "guarantee" 300rwhp, but if we want to be honest and get more useful information, the dyno should be done at the same location...just my opinion.

Then we will see what this VR intake can do for a car with full bolt ons and a tune. Your right...you won't see the 20 or 25+ HP as on a stock or nearly stock car...but surely another 10 is feasible???!!!.

I'm guessing they have a decent fan that could be used to help the VR intake on the dyno? I'd guess the VR performs better on the street than on the dyno...who knows. Now Im just rambling lol

[OOLIE]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

If you keep your E85 tune for now, and you add the VR intake...I would say take it back to the same place again.

Yeah it would be sweet to take it to a dyno that reads a bit higher and maybe help "guarantee" 300rwhp, but if we want to be honest and get more useful information, the dyno should be done at the same location...just my opinion.

Then we will see what this VR intake can do for a car with full bolt ons and a tune. Your right...you won't see the 20 or 25+ HP as on a stock or nearly stock car...but surely another 10 is feasible???!!!.

I'm guessing they have a decent fan that could be used to help the VR intake on the dyno? I'd guess the VR performs better on the street than on the dyno...who knows. Now Im just rambling lol

+1

Although I get how tough it would be to not go to a higher dyno, This is a science experiment so constants are important. It is your money so I respect whatever decision you make.