Customer Complaint thread

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You represent the customers that are guaranteed. That has traditionally never been enough to keep GM in business. Would you prefer getting your cars now and seeing GM fail or seeing GM sell cars so that someday you can get another new GM car that awes you as much as this one? As a business strategy, it simply makes sense to sell as many cars to enthusiasts as possible, but it also is necessary to promote to non-enthusiasts, and that is only possible if enthusiasts aren't the only ones receiving cars. How can you tell the difference? Enthusiasts order first.

True Blur but I think conquered sales wouldn't mind waiting a month or two initially. I remember back in the early 80's, I went with my uncle to order his new car. We went into the store and they had one big car and two small cars in the showroom and maybe 4 or 5 new cars outside for demo and lot.

My uncle went in, looked at the car in the showroom, selected his color and they told him 3 months minimum before anyone gets their car after ordering. That company? Honda....

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by XoVeR

Aight first let me say I am not an expert on Camaro's, in fact I am not even a huge fan of them, but I am interested on the release of the new Camaro because of how our economy is going and the hopes Chevy are putting on this car. In no way am I an expert on the car.

But it does not make my opinion on this matter any less relevent.

I will preface my response with a quote that one of my managers said to me

"Do not ASSUME, because when you ASSUME something, you only make an ASS out of U and ME"

Now the biggest issue I am seeing people having is that they ASSUMED that Pre Order automatically meant FIRST to receive the Vehicle. But here is the issue. No where has GM said or IMPLIED that people who pre order the Camaro would get the car first.

Back in January I went with Mindz to a Chevy dealership to watch a Teleconference between the GM top brass and the Dealers, and one of the things I got out of the meeting was that CAMARO's will be Alotted to customers based on a census on what dealerships sold the most cars. Also it said people who pre ordered the Camaro most likely would not get their cars until October on the second cycle of the Camaro Release. This was a conference DEALERSHIPS watched or attended, so they knew that Camaro's would not be Gauranteed to Preorders right off the back.

So the issue with people who pre ordered the Chevy is two fold

1. People saw the Word Pre Order and immediately assumed "OH YIPPEE ME FIRST ME FIRST"

2. People were getting Hoodwinked my dealers to pre order to get the person's sale because guess what people thats what DEALERS do.

The first issue is if you Pre Ordered with the ME FIRST attitude, you did not read or research the product thoroughly before you pre ordered the Car. Oh you know all the specs, and what comes with the car, but you were blinded by the glitz and glam. You did not look for the information that was given, you only looked for the information that you wanted.

The people who fell victim to the second issue should really learn how to read a situation for what it is. Your talking to a dealer. The Economy is bad, dealers work on commission. And you thought your dealer was giving you objective advice.


Now some cold hard facts. This kind of stuff happens with legendary cars get re introduced, just look at recent history.

When the remodled Mustang came out, the same situation happened. People who pre ordered the car did not obtain the car until MONTHS after it was released. Even the chief design engineer of the remolded mustang did not get the car until 8 months until after it was released.

All people had to do was look at what happened with the mustang before they pre ordered the Camaro. Your answer would of smacked you in the face right therer in then.

I do sympathize with people wanting their Camaro's. It is a very nice looking car, I am not a huge fan of muscle cars, but I can definately see the Mystique in the New Camaro. If I was a fan of American Muscle Cars, I am pretty sure I would want a Camaro.

But people do not let your want's dictate your actions. Your car will be ready when it is ready

Just Chill out.

GM not only called it a preorder which has it's own implied meaning but their statements on here as well as in the very minimal public documentation certainly did imply that preorders would come first. I've already shown examples of this so I won't go into it again.

Please post the dealership you attended the IDL at so that they can be reprimanded by GM. The information in that broadcast was GM confidential and customers were not permitted to view it. We should know. One small clip was posted by a dealer as part of a larger video of them yapping and GM demanded that it be pulled down immediately. Most dealerships didn't even watch the IDL. I know mine didn't. The whole idea of an IDL is antiquated. I mean... seriously... a satellite feed? In this day and age we have a thing called "the internet" (you may not have heard of it yet) that will allow people to "broadcast" video for relatively minimal cost. Maybe someone at GM should give this internet thing a try. And as I posted at the time, why couldn't they make this a webcast where customers could watch? Or have another webcast so that we don't have to pry information out of dealers. Oh what, you going to tell me that explaining the situation to customers goes against state laws too?

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

Yes I read the whole 22 pages of these compiled threads, and this one specifically I have read it and understand it. It is as simple as this (which really isn't simple but understandable), IMO anyways. I never seen anywhere that GM said 1st come 1st serve, if people assumed this....well, and if they were told this it was not from GM. The dealers are responsible to how they sort their allocations out and GM has no authority over this. GM cannot possibly build the orders in the order they came, there are way too many factors in this equation but just try for a few minutes and think about it. I believe that in their plans, screwing over the enthusiast was not part of their evil scheme and nor is it what they are doing. There are dealers out there taking advantage of the situation and GM cannot control this, take it up with your dealer and write/call your representatives if you really want to solve this problem. If there was the same kinda passion directed to the sources of these problems instead of bashing GM who's hands are tied because of bureaucracy and/or policies as there is in this thread, well you just might get something done. I think there are things to be mad at, but most of these complaints are misguided. What really gets me though is to attack a man who many knows as "the worlds greatest living Camaro enthusiasts", "Mr. Camaro", "F-bodfather" for trying to ease our tensions, trying to explain something that is really complicated and dynamic as the auto manufacturing business is. He is a fellow Camaro enthusiasts who he and few others had enough passion and drive to get this great car into production when most had already written it off. The lack of respect that has been given to him and others including GM is disheartening. We are suppose to be enthusiasts, instead we are bashing the very company and people that has brought back an icon because of us the "enthusiasts". Good grief.

There is time to voice and then there is time to listen. I think we need to listen a lil more.

This isn't Scott's job. It's John or someone else on the Camaro team's. But, Scott is filling that role since they are evidently unwilling or uncapable of doing so themselves. I've had enough of listening to BS. Look at John's post on the fastlane blog. A bunch of beuraucratic crap. But how come he can post that in the comments of a blog but not on here? Or another enthusiast forum? Doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by 2010 SS RS

I have only one thing to add. When I go to Best Buy (dealer) and pre-order Madden 2010......People off the street dont get them walking in off the street until mine is delivered to me. Thanks EA sports.

and

Originally Posted by 67camaro99

When you go to Best Buy, the product they are selling is MASSED produced, held, and then shipped in Volume.
So, should GM hold 15K CAMAROS, wave a magic wand, and all Chevy Dealers have the CAMARO on MAY 6th? Better Yet, March 16th?????

and

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

but how many other people also have a reserved ticket for that exact same time? you move to a different line, but you still have to wait in line.


sort of. if you go to best buy and pre order a game, all that does is reserve you a copy when they come in. I just pre-ordered the Sims 3 (and got a few bonus things by preordering), but the day it comes in, im going to be out of town. does that mean that no one else should be able to come into the store the day it comes out and buy one direct? no. they arent going to ship me my game before they ship it to stores, all the preorder is (in this case) is a reservation for your individual, unique camaro.

Guys, stuff like video games are not a good analog to this. Both sides really shouldn't be using it. They can produce a billion copies of a game in no time flat. They also don't have allocation systems to mess with. But on the flip side, if you preorder a game, some guy can't walk into another store and get that game BEFORE you. That's what's happening here. The same thing would happen here if you're out of town... the dealership will (or should) hold your car til you get back.

[2010 SS RS]

Does anyone remember this from the original Pre-order Workbook?
Chevrolet is pleased to announce that on Monday, October
13, 2008, GM GlobalConnect’s Order Workbench’s
Quick Order system will be available to accept bona fide
sold customer orders for the 2010 Camaro Coupe. This
program is being implemented to help satisfy a very strong
demand that’s expected with the return of this high-profile
sports car.
To assist you with early ordering, Chevylaunch.com will be
updated on October 10, 2008, to include the following
information on the 2010 Camaro Web site:
• Frequently Asked Questions – answers to common
Early Order Program questions will be displayed in the
“Questions” section of the 2010 Camaro Web site
• Estimated production guide number– your individual
Camaro production guide number for the first few
months of production will be displayed in the
“Distribution” section of the 2010
Camaro Web site
The production guide was developed
based on two factors: (1) On your
Chevrolet retail sales (both cars
and trucks) over the twelve
months ending August 2008; and
(2) Mustang registrations for the
twelve months ending June 2008
in your DMA. The guide covers
anticipated Camaro Coupe production from the start of
regular production, currently scheduled for mid-February
through approximately Q3 2009. Questions on individual
guide numbers should be directed to your District Sales
Manager. As always with a vehicle launch, these guide
figures are not an assurance as to future production, but
are issued to you only for planning purposes. Given the
vagaries of scheduling production and the possibility of
subsequently developing constraints or other business
factors, we cannot make any firm commitments at this
early stage.
Only bona fide sold customer orders with complete
information (including customer’s name and full address)
will be accepted by General Motors. Consumers making
inquiries on the status of their sold orders will be
instructed that the dealer has received a production guide
number, and will be directed back to their dealer for
further information on their order.
The ability to submit bona fide sold customer orders well
in front of the start of production is a unique opportunity
to strengthen relationships with existing customers and
establish a bond with new customers. Be sure to visit
Chevylaunch.com for details on the Early Order Program
and stay tuned throughout the program duration for any
important updates.


I dont see anywhere on there that this process was a census. Hmmmmm?
But they have done a great job strengthening the relationships and establishing a bond with new customers.

[DET MSCL]

Originally Posted by 67camaro99

When you go to Best Buy, the product they are selling is MASSED produced, held, and then shipped in Volume.
So, should GM hold 15K CAMAROS, wave a magic wand, and all Chevy Dealers have the CAMARO on MAY 6th? Better Yet, March 16th?????

Good point...I think some of us pre-orderers have forgotten that our pre-order is a CUSTOM ORDER, exactly the way we want it (here's an analogy...like at Burger King )...those individuals buying an LT (or the very few SSs) off a Dealer lot are getting "what they can get", not necessary all the bells and whistles they desire...

I ordered early, was lucky enough to be my Dealer's #1 submission, got a VIN in early April, but still have NO delivered Camaro 4 weeks after being built...I'm sure my car was "passed up" for a day or two while in a "Rally Stripe" bay, then passed up by LTs while in the QA area (Brembo brake issue, illuminated door panel shortage, etc.). Then, there is the delivery push to get Dealer cars out for the May 6th launch, so mine is more than likely sitting in a storage lot simply waiting for Rail capacity to free up...

[RT21]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

Yes I read the whole 22 pages of these compiled threads, and this one specifically I have read it and understand it. It is as simple as this (which really isn't simple but understandable), IMO anyways. I never seen anywhere that GM said 1st come 1st serve, if people assumed this....well, and if they were told this it was not from GM. The dealers are responsible to how they sort their allocations out and GM has no authority over this. GM cannot possibly build the orders in the order they came, there are way too many factors in this equation but just try for a few minutes and think about it. I believe that in their plans, screwing over the enthusiast was not part of their evil scheme and nor is it what they are doing. There are dealers out there taking advantage of the situation and GM cannot control this, take it up with your dealer and write/call your representatives if you really want to solve this problem. If there was the same kinda passion directed to the sources of these problems instead of bashing GM who's hands are tied because of bureaucracy and/or policies as there is in this thread, well you just might get something done. I think there are things to be mad at, but most of these complaints are misguided. What really gets me though is to attack a man who many knows as "the worlds greatest living Camaro enthusiasts", "Mr. Camaro", "F-bodfather" for trying to ease our tensions, trying to explain something that is really complicated and dynamic as the auto manufacturing business is. He is a fellow Camaro enthusiasts who he and few others had enough passion and drive to get this great car into production when most had already written it off. The lack of respect that has been given to him and others including GM is disheartening. We are suppose to be enthusiasts, instead we are bashing the very company and people that has brought back an icon because of us the "enthusiasts". Good grief.

There is time to voice and then there is time to listen. I think we need to listen a lil more.

I think the last bolded quote is what sux the most. I can't believe anyone has the even the "hide behind the internet balls" to disrespect FBod or GM. So, my complaint is to complain about all of you that disrespected that man after all he has done and is doing for us.

Originally Posted by speedster

Just one small comment about "pre-order" versus the census. The minute a deposit was accepted it is considered "reasonable compensation" and therefore contractual. It is extremely doubtful that anyone in their right mind would put a substantial deposit down on a census.

Definition: Pre-orders allow consumers to guarantee prompt delivery on release, manufacturers can gauge how much demand there will be and hence how large initial production runs should be, and sellers can be assured of minimum sales. Additionally, high pre-order rates can be used to generate publicity to further increase sales.

I am not saying I am for or against the present scenario, just posting what a pre-order is defined to be.

I am doing my best to wait until after the May 6th unveiling.

I'm shocked that you even contributed to this thread. I am only because of my outrage at the disrespect of the most respectful.

[GodisaSooner]

Is there any logic as to why the early orders are not arriving in large numbers? I ordered on 10/22/08 - the dealer is a good friend and has basically told me it will be here when it get here I really don't have a huge problem with this - I'm 57 and have learned much patience over the years. I'm not going to bug him about order numbers and such because none of that will make it come before it gets here. But still I can't help but wonder why it's not here when I read other threads of people who ordered in Feb 09 and are recieving their Camaro. Should one be worried about something being wrong with these units? Will I be recieving a potential lemon when it finally arrives - there must be something wrong?

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by RT21

I think the last bolded quote is what sux the most. I can't believe anyone has the even the "hide behind the internet balls" to disrespect FBod or GM. So, my complaint is to complain about all of you that disrespected that man after all he has done and is doing for us.

I don't see how disagreeing with someone is disrespecting them. Maybe some of the comments in this thread are out of line (I'm sure the moderators will take care of those) but what is this forum coming to if we can't disagree with the GM party line?

The current situation is just plain wrong.

If GM can make it so that celebrities can get early allocation, they can can make sure that the rest of us get at least some sort of priority. Last I checked, GM wasn't fending off lawsuits over those celebrity orders.

[3 SS's]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

The current situation is just plain wrong.

.... I can't believe how many disagree

[3 SS's]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

If GM can make it so that celebrities can get early allocation, they can can make sure that the rest of us get at least some sort of priority. Last I checked, GM wasn't fending off lawsuits over those celebrity orders.

Excellent point

[RT21]

Originally Posted by RT21

I think the last bolded quote is what sux the most. I can't believe anyone has the even the "hide behind the internet balls" to disrespect FBod or GM. So, my complaint is to complain about all of you that disrespected that man after all he has done and is doing for us.

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

I don't see how disagreeing with someone is disrespecting them. Maybe some of the comments in this thread are out of line (I'm sure the moderators will take care of those) but what is this forum coming to if we can't disagree with the GM party line?

The current situation is just plain wrong.

If GM can make it so that celebrities can get early allocation, they can can make sure that the rest of us get at least some sort of priority. Last I checked, GM wasn't fending off lawsuits over those celebrity orders.

Dude...I agree with you. I'm just pointing out the disrespect. GM sort of, but of FBod mostly. Calling him absurd? Calling him out? Questioning his experience and loyalty? If you're not part of the "all of you disrespected" then, wasn't talking about you or yours and the rest line of thinking/protesting.

[Blue Maro Demon]

I am starting to wonder if I am ever going to get to own one of these before the end of the year. A dealership nearby where I live has shown a commercial for the unveiling tomorrow but the dealership I ordered mine from won't have theirs until May 11th they said.

I am already upset about the last dealership I ordered from going out of business and now I have to worry about GM going bankrupt on June 1st and if they will be shutting down for a period or still making the cars.

With all the reports of cracks on the nose and a rearview mirror tore and dengs in the door I will be very upset if mine has any flaws like this. I hope I still will have mine by September and its not delayed due to bankruptcy or anything if it is I will be very upset.

[kunkelz28]

you are right, go buy a mustang

[toesuf94]

I hope it gets there soon! Sorry that it is taking this long.

[djsnoflake]

You and everyone else (Myself included) wants their car. Go get a massage or something.........