Camaro Z28 rumors dampened by Bob Lutz, G8 will (update: NOT) survive

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Dutchman427

I hope they leave the Z/28 dead if they plan to put a 6 in it. Here comes 1971+ all over again.

It doesn't have to be that way. Of course -- nobody said they'd be putting a 6 in the Z28...just my crazy ramblings. So don't worry.

[camero]

You guys are freaks. Bob announced that there would be a new rear-wheel drive V8 Chevy performance sedan (rebadged G8) which has been missing from the lineup for 10 years, a new rear-wheel-drive supercharged V8 performance Cadillac coupe and wagon to go with the sedan, and you take that to mean that we'll be driving Vegas and Trabants soon??? I assure you that he didn't mean to say that the V8 Camaro SS is going anywhere. And you know that there is still a huge fight to put the Z28 in production and that Bob is on its side if anyone is. Just think about what you're saying.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by camero

You guys are freaks. Bob announced that there would be a new rear-wheel drive V8 Chevy performance sedan (rebadged G8) which has been missing from the lineup for 10 years, a new rear-wheel-drive supercharged V8 performance Cadillac coupe and wagon to go with the sedan, and you take that to mean that we'll be driving Vegas and Trabants soon??? I assure you that he didn't mean to say that the V8 Camaro SS is going anywhere. And you know that there is still a huge fight to put the Z28 in production and that Bob is on its side if anyone is. Just think about what you're saying.

Yeah! Listen to this guy!




Seriously...he's right, and you know it.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Dutchman427

I hope they leave the Z/28 dead if they plan to put a 6 in it. Here comes 1971+ all over again.

6s sure didn't make 300 hp in 1971, much less naturally aspirated. Supercharged or Turbocharged DI V6s can make Z28 worthy power without much trouble at all. If you can get past the transmission that blows up if you flip the wrong switch, the GT-R shows you 6s can make for blow-away performance.

[Revo1]

At this point I'm just really hoping they don't do away with the V8 altogether... The day I see another 4cyl in a Camaro will be a sad day indeed... :(

[2L8IWON]

Sorry, but I must be getting old or just care about our children's children. I love our muscle cars and will take them while I can, but it's about time GM wakes up and smells the coffee! Don't let America bite the dust by Toyota, Honda, and Nissan! I know parts these days are being made all over the world for all of them, but for GM's sake, they need to finally wake up and do the smart thing. It's just a matter of time before the air quality gets worse and gas prices keep going up from ridiculous high American fuel demand! It's a no brainer! As CEO, do you want to turn the company around or not? Sorry, but 4 cylinder turbos are the way to go, ricey or not! In the near future, you better have some serious mullah for the high performance gas guzzling beasts!!! Just my opinon of course, but seems like common sense. Can we say GM and Chrysler bailouts? Are we seeing Toyota and Honda bailouts? I know Nissan has had it's problems, but probably more because of poor run of the company. Sentras, Maxima's, and Z's have sold tons through the years. Just my take on things. Enjoy the reasonably priced SS beast while you can or save up for the pricier vette, viper, porsche, ferrari, lambo, and bugatti beasts if you can!

[Black5thgen]

The V8 will be here to stay. With new tech like DI the V8 will still be viable in the future. I think Lutz really took a diplomatic stance on the Z28. He danced around the subject and mentioned some new more fuel effecient options but never really says anything directly about the Z28. I would predict that in a couple years when the Fed is payed in full the Z28 will hit showrooms in limited numbers. Like the late 70's this to shall pass.

[SleepWarz]

Originally Posted by stovt001

6s sure didn't make 300 hp in 1971, much less naturally aspirated. Supercharged or Turbocharged DI V6s can make Z28 worthy power without much trouble at all. If you can get past the transmission that blows up if you flip the wrong switch, the GT-R shows you 6s can make for blow-away performance.

You can do whatever you want to a six however it will never sound like an 8, and thats half the reason behind the purchase for me.

[S8ER01Z]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I said nothing of weak power. 350-400hp. There was a rumor thread recently, that I suspect you may have missed, about a possible FI V6. Probably with Direct Injection...A Forced Induction 6 cylinder...the likes of which can be found in Porches, Audis, BMWs, and the Nissan GTR...

To me, and perhaps only me; power, performance, and the car as a whole matter a whole helluva lot more than number of cylinders.

Yeah I didn't see the rumor...and I think the weak power thing was a bit out of context in a way. Given the weight of the 5th gens 350~400hp isn't great and I would rather see the RPO put on a shelf than see it come back watered down.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

You can do whatever you want to a six however it will never sound like an 8, and thats half the reason behind the purchase for me.

I won't argue that. That isn't to say there aren't nice sounding sixes out there, but if you must have that V8 rumble, then the SS will still be there for you.

[Shadowmind]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Except these four cylinder cars aren't emasculated slow-mobiles....iron duke...*shudders*

I'm not sure what I'm thinking...but without a massive-output V8...I wonder if the SS and Z28 nameplates might switch "back"...with SS being the high-powered straight line car, and the Z28 being a moderately-powered track car, and the base Camaro being a "low" powered (I still maintain the current V6 is NOT low-powered) everyday car. This is pure speculation, and absolutely baseless...I'm just wondering.

I could see the Z28 "if they made it", a supercharged HCCI V6. I can also see a future Camaro V6 a turbo HCCI V6 as well. GM is very, very close to production on this engine. Around 2 years, these bad boys are going to be dropping into standard configurations.

If GM was smart, they'd license the tech to every car manufacturer in the world and make a mint on royalties. That'd mean no more V8 Mustangs either.

Hate to say it, but this is the doom and gloom scenario that I foresaw well before the bankruptcy. The SS will be the last of the great V8's. Expect a future of light, high powered small engines in cars with very little displacement.

[delius]

HA I KNEW IT.

I am so glad i ordered a V8.

You had to know that since congress has thier thumb up GM's ass...that V8s will be gone soon. WOO HOO and grats to anyone who has ordered the v8s.

These are the last years of V8 Power and Performance...you can count on it.

[BlackIce1066]

Hello everyone here. This being my first post I would first like to thank the moderators of this site for doing an outstanding job and for allowing us to share in this community. My brother is a member and I have been patiently waiting for the time when I can order my own Camaro and become a member but this thread needed my 2 cents worth. By my comments I hope I insult no one and this is mearly my opinion.

Mr Lutz, where do I begin . I and many others have listened to you spew this stuff for years. I have never been a fan of yours and I truly blame you for part, if not most of the reason a great company like GM is in the predicament it is in.

You made a comment many years ago that has stuck in my head till now and that was "we are looking for a new kind of customer". You made this comment around the time when the GTO was about to be reintroduced. I understand a company has to evolve with the times and become better as time goes on but do not forget about the customers that have bought GM products for decades and made the company what it was. Do not ignore the hard core fans of the muscle car era and the ones that known the confidance of a well built product. For example, you decide to take the camaro away and delete it off of your line of products along with the Impala. Do you not relize the Impala was one of the most widley used vehicles and the market for it was there but in an idiotic move you decide to delete it. Its no wonder Ford doesnt need money from the government, you allowed them to monopolize the market. The Camaro gets deleted just when Ford introduces its new retro Mustang, Duh Bob . Not only does Ford make a Mustang that looks like the older car but you allow them to monoploize the market by deleting the only true competion it had! Instead the 5 Gen Camaro should have been started then. Now finally you produce the Camaro and it sells better then anything else, including the Challenger, and why is that? Because it looks like something someone would want. People didnt go out in droves and purchase the GTO ( 2004-2006) like they are with the 5th gen Camaro because it looks like a glorified Cavalier. Oh but we will make the HHR and that little Truck thing that looks like an old 50's style pick up. Those dont sell for squat either! Oh but wait, we have our truck line that will keep this company going. It wont when Ford has over 100 options of trucks to meet the customers needs. Mr Lutz, you have been making the wrong decisions for GM for years. It is time you step down and allow GM to bounce back and hopfully become the company it once was.

Look, I am not a Ford fan. I hate Fords. In my opinion they are junk and that come from soneone that worked on them for over 29 years. The only reason Ford has survived and not need money from the government is because they listened to their customers. They produced a product that no one else would. The Crown Vic, Mustang, Taurus, F series trucks. They knew how to market and supply the public with products that were needed, never mind the fact that they wouldnt last, but it was out their if someone needed it. The executive at GM need to listen to the public and give them what they are asking for. Start making the cars that people want. I understand we need to evolve and make "Green" cars and that is fine but also make the cars that are needed to. Make more options for the truck line so that it can take away the monopolization of the F series. Make a rear wheel drive sedan so that law enforcment, taxi cab companies and others can use. Start listening to the public and bring back GM to the top.

Lutz, you need to also listen to the public and be aware of what people want and not what your purception of what they need.

Thats my two cents. I hope to soon purchase my 5th gen Camaroand will post pics.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I would have to disagree on the whole with your post. I want to start by pointing out that the V8 is not going away. There is some more that can be done to make the V8 even more fuel efficient, and that has not been done yet. Additionally, I want to point out that there will never be a 4-cylinder Camaro unless it has as much torque as the current V6. Apparently, even the LNF engine that powers the Cobalt SS is too inferior to make the Camaro fun to drive. Let's be honest. In the past, every Camaro has been a fun ride, including the V6s. I'm sure that GM won't ruin a great car with an engine that lacks the force to move it.

I do want to reinforce the idea of a V6 with forced induction. Ford is pushing the EcoBoost program. There's no reason that GM should stay with the backwards idea that only the V8 can perform with SS numbers. A V6 with DI and VVT, like the LLT motor, can be built to support forced induction with performance numbers that match or exceed the LS3. It can be at a similar price point, and it will have similar performance. If Ford can do it, then why should GM just watch?

Traditionally, the Z28 has had less displacement with a track-tuned suspension. The current SS already has a competitive, track-tuned suspension, so all it would need is a low-displacement engine with similar performance. Obviously, GM can't release another V8 in a market that would favor fuel efficient vehicles, so a V6 with V8 performance is highly desirable. You still get to go fast, and everyone who claims that there's no replacement for a high-displacement engine would have buy the SS anyway because it has traditionally had a bigger V8. There are no losers in this plan.

If GM can make a V6 with the same HP and torque as the current V8...I will have to say it is th beginning of the end for the V8 in the Camaro.. It might still be around in the Corvette due to it being a smaller niche group based solely on enthusiasts, however the Camaro is simply for mass production like the Mustang is. The only difference is Ford is not taking orders from the Government so they can have whatever engines they want be in whatever vehicles. At least Ford fans know they understand the heritage aspect.. Scott Settlemeyer "Fbodfather" has mentioned he is afraid that heritage aspect will go away with all the new people/workers coming into new GM and the older workers being given very nice retirement packages in order to get them out..