Camaro Z28 rumors dampened by Bob Lutz, G8 will (update: NOT) survive

[Baldturbofreak]

our solstice GXP goes 12.80's. There is alot more left in it. If the camaro with a turbo LNF would weigh about 100lbs less than the 6 and had a better head/turbo package it could be a real badass.
But again, it will still sound like a 4 banger. THey better let it rev.

[camero]

Four cylinder Camaros sound awful now but if gas hits $6 they will sell like hotcakes!

[delius]

Originally Posted by S8ER01Z

That depends a lot on perspective... on paper 304hp and 140mph sound great. Neither specs 15 years ago would have been bad at all... today those specs make it hardly fast nor powerful in the grand scheme of things.

A honda S2000 is faster and is only packing 237hp... there is a lot more to performance than just horsepower ratings.

kinda funny seeing how the late 80's trans am topped out at 186 mph.

Even the early 90's easily hit past the 155 governor that the 5th gens have.

Stupid import governor.

[delius]

Originally Posted by camero

Four cylinder Camaros sound awful now but if gas hits $6 they will sell like hotcakes!

I hope they do not resort to 4 cylinders.

Hopefully Gas will not reach that price.

DEATH TO OPEC

[Punk_rider]

Ok, so help me guys:

I'm french, I want the highest HP Camaro, If I go on a SS and see a 550HP Z28 coming 1 or 2 years later, I'll be so disappointed I'll probably start hating my car. Due to french regulations and other stuff, I wouldn't be able to mod the Maro and make it be 500HP. I like a lot the said Z28 fascia and not that much the SS fascia. If a Z28 comes, I won't be able to trade my SS for a Z28 (no market for that overhere).

So, what should I do?
- Get an SS and take the risk to hate it if a Z comes?
- Wait for a HiPo Z28 and may wait forever?
- Get a GT500, admit it doesn't look as good as a Camaro but still looks great in a continent full of Peugeots and BMWs, but still have more than 500HP?

This 550HP Camaro soap opera is turning me crazy ....

One guy told us to keep the faith ... is that still the thing to do? That's hard to keep the faith right now.

PS: 4 banger in Camaro is just a non sense, if you want a 4 banger, fuel economy and so on, why would you buy a camaro? sounds like if I wanted a diesel engine and was looking for it in a Ferrari dealership ...

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

Ok, so help me guys:

I'm french, I want the highest HP Camaro, If I go on a SS and see a 550HP Z28 coming 1 or 2 years later, I'll be so disappointed I'll probably start hating my car. Due to french regulations and other stuff, I wouldn't be able to mod the Maro and make it be 500HP. I like a lot the said Z28 fascia and not that much the SS fascia. If a Z28 comes, I won't be able to trade my SS for a Z28 (no market for that overhere).

So, what should I do?
- Get an SS and take the risk to hate it if a Z comes?

Now, why would you do that? Seems awfully silly to me to hate your car just because something better is out there. Frankly, that means everyone ought to hate their cars except for the luckiest drivers of Bugatti Veyrons...

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

- Wait for a HiPo Z28 and may wait forever?

There's no telling how long it may take for the Z28 to come.:( Maybe it'll be released with the converitible? Maybe a year later than that....nobody knows.

But if Bob Lutz holds true to his word, the Z28 won't be directly equivilant to the GT500, anyways - so you may be waiting for something that isn't what you thought it was....and what I mean by that is that Bob seems insistent that the LSA (550hp) or a similar engine won't make it into the car.

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

- Get a GT500, admit it doesn't look as good as a Camaro but still looks great in a continent full of Peugeots and BMWs, but still have more than 500HP?

If you're just after the 500hp number...then perhaps the GT500 is for you...but performance-wise...MotorTrend recorded a drag race between the two cars showing that the GT500 was a whole .1 seconds faster than the Camaro in the quarter mile. Even if you can get it to go faster, is such a slim lead worth the almost $20,000 USD premium (God only knows how expensive it is in France)?

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

One guy told us to keep the faith ... is that still the thing to do? That's hard to keep the faith right now.

"Keep the faith" is a life motto, imo. At no point should you stop keeping the faith...having said that, I can only offer my opinion:

If I were in your shoes, I'd wait for more information on the Z28, which could be a couple years worth of waiting. In that time, you could save more money, and perhaps the SS drops in prices around you...so if the Z isn't what you thought it would be, you can grab the SS.

If that wasn't an option, I'd get the SS. But I can't understand why you'd hate your car if the Z came out afterwards...so maybe this isn't an option for you.

The last thing I'd do is buy the GT500...but that's just me, a Chevy guy, who would rather have $20 grand in my pocket then a few tenths in the quarter mile.

The bottom line is that nobody knows what's happening in regards to the Z28. Not for sure anyways. To date, the only concrete things we know is #1, the Z28 is not dead, and Lutz confirmed that by saying "the Z28 won't have...etc..etc", and #2, the Z28 most likely won't have a 500+hp engine, as per Bob Lutz, again.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Mohrg Beast

know thy person you speak about before assuming..asumption is the mother of all phuckers. im the son of a man who can listen to a car driving down the street 100 yards away and tell me whats wrong with the car. They did make a 4 cyl camaro..it was first called a Cavalier..then it was called a Colbalt..anyway camaros have the stigma of being V8s and V6s only because that is what they are made for.and why people buy them.if they wanted a four cyl then theyd buy a smaller car with a 4 cyl.that way the car will actually go..thats why the build big cars for v8s. we hold our cars to heart. and we expect certain things out of our cars. for people that accept change thats fine. i love change. but certain changes destroy. its people that want to make smaller engines for bad ass cars for people like you who want the looks of a nice car with a pissy engine that destroyed the Nove..One of the greatest car ever made. Look at the 80s model when they made it a 4 banger for families..wheres the new novas again???

no what killed the nova II was making it a corrola and stupid reviews talking trash about the nova II and praising the toyota. . .

but what's the difference in someone taking a fiero GT and dropping a 2.4 l ecotec motor in it? going from a 6cyc to a 4 banger. . .but the hp rating is the same? hell even the 2.0 DI turbo ecotec would be good in that car.

point is if it's got the grunt then who cares about the number of cylinders. there's a reason there isn't a 4 banger in it now. . the lnf didn't have the grunt and couldn't push the car around with fuel efficiency that out did the 3.6l DI. the only reason they will put a 4 banger in this car is if it's fun to drive and gets better mileage. and the current ones can't do that so who knows what the next gen 4 bangers will hold.

btw give me a V8 in the camaro any day just as long as i has performance to match. but IF the new Z is a hopped up 6 cylinder that can handle like a wet dream, I'll take that.

[Punk_rider]

Now, why would you do that? Seems awfully silly to me to hate your car just because something better is out there. Frankly, that means everyone ought to hate their cars except for the luckiest drivers of Bugatti Veyrons...

I have the "mine's bigger than yours" syndrom!
but Veyron's out of price range!

But if Bob Lutz holds true to his word, the Z28 won't be directly equivilant to the GT500, anyways - so you may be waiting for something that isn't what you thought it was....and what I mean by that is that Bob seems insistent that the LSA (550hp) or a similar engine won't make it into the car.

You all seem to like him, I don't know this guy but already hate him with a passion!

If you're just after the 500hp number...then perhaps the GT500 is for you...but performance-wise...MotorTrend recorded a drag race between the two cars showing that the GT500 was a whole .1 seconds faster than the Camaro in the quarter mile. Even if you can get it to go faster, is such a slim lead worth the almost $20,000 USD premium (God only knows how expensive it is in France)?

You can find ready-to-go ones for 90 000 EUR. Guess I can find cheaper, around 70 K

"Keep the faith" is a life motto, imo. At no point should you stop keeping the faith...having said that, I can only offer my opinion:

If I were in your shoes, I'd wait for more information on the Z28, which could be a couple years worth of waiting. In that time, you could save more money, and perhaps the SS drops in prices around you...so if the Z isn't what you thought it would be, you can grab the SS.

Money's not an issue (except if it means buying, reselling and buying which is a nonsense to me). Not having a clear schedule is killing me. I think you're right, but that would be a lot easier if we have a schedule, if we could be sure on 20XX there will/won't be a Z.

I guess that's the smarter moves I can think of ... but I'm gonna be forced to hate you all Camaro owners until I get mine!

The bottom line is that nobody knows what's happening in regards to the Z28. Not for sure anyways. To date, the only concrete things we know is #1, the Z28 is not dead, and Lutz confirmed that by saying "the Z28 won't have...etc..etc", and #2, the Z28 most likely won't have a 500+hp engine, as per Bob Lutz, again.

again, I hate this guy with a passion.

In the meanwhile .. at least I can buy a cheaper Chevrolet ...

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

Ok, so help me guys:

I'm french...

Sorry but there is nothing I can do....

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by azfan

I have two points.
1. I really wonder how many people crying over the Z28 have the money to buy a 50K Camaro. If you want the power that bad you can get yourself a supercharger. The SS has 430HP! it's the most powerful Camaro ever. How many people would/could buy one, or just want to read about it in a magazine tested against the GT500?
2. Lutz never said the V8 was dead, and if it does die it wont be because that's what he wants. We know About CAFE. Turbo 4's and V6's are what's gonna happen. At the moment we should be more concerned with hoping the Camaro sells for the next 6 years, to make sure there is another one at all.
Heck, if the Camaro was lighter a high HP V6 wouldn't be so bad. What's in the Porsche 911? a V6. And it runs with the Corvette.

I highlighted something very wrong. . .the 69 Z28 302 motor dynoed at well over 500 hp. 2010 camaro most powerful production yea right. . .+ it's 426 for the manual.


no matter what either power/tq has to come up in the 4 and 6 bangers respectively or the weight has to come down. IF they are taking over the line up of the camaro. BUT GM can release a DI V8 with smaller displacement better fuel economy and produce the same power out put as the current 6.2. if I remember a modified l92 with DI was putting close to 500 hp down and that was just a modified gen 4 motor. with all the refinements that could come with a gen V motor we could see more power from a 6.0-5.7 liter blocks and better fuel economy to boot. the end of the V-8 is far from here.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

You all seem to like him, I don't know this guy but already hate him with a passion!

Well...he was partially responsible for the Camaro in the first place. His choices regarding the Z28 are with the companies best interests at heart.

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

I guess that's the smarter moves I can think of ... but I'm gonna be forced to hate you all Camaro owners until I get mine! .

Well...I'm waiting, too! :(

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

Ok, so help me guys:

I'm french, I want the highest HP Camaro, If I go on a SS and see a 550HP Z28 coming 1 or 2 years later, I'll be so disappointed I'll probably start hating my car. Due to french regulations and other stuff, I wouldn't be able to mod the Maro and make it be 500HP. I like a lot the said Z28 fascia and not that much the SS fascia. If a Z28 comes, I won't be able to trade my SS for a Z28 (no market for that overhere).

So, what should I do?
- Get an SS and take the risk to hate it if a Z comes?
- Wait for a HiPo Z28 and may wait forever?
- Get a GT500, admit it doesn't look as good as a Camaro but still looks great in a continent full of Peugeots and BMWs, but still have more than 500HP?

This 550HP Camaro soap opera is turning me crazy ....

One guy told us to keep the faith ... is that still the thing to do? That's hard to keep the faith right now.

PS: 4 banger in Camaro is just a non sense, if you want a 4 banger, fuel economy and so on, why would you buy a camaro? sounds like if I wanted a diesel engine and was looking for it in a Ferrari dealership ...

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

I have the "mine's bigger than yours" syndrom!
but Veyron's out of price range!

You all seem to like him, I don't know this guy but already hate him with a passion!

You can find ready-to-go ones for 90 000 EUR. Guess I can find cheaper, around 70 K

Money's not an issue (except if it means buying, reselling and buying which is a nonsense to me). Not having a clear schedule is killing me. I think you're right, but that would be a lot easier if we have a schedule, if we could be sure on 20XX there will/won't be a Z.

I guess that's the smarter moves I can think of ... but I'm gonna be forced to hate you all Camaro owners until I get mine!

again, I hate this guy with a passion.

In the meanwhile .. at least I can buy a cheaper Chevrolet ...

Okay - I don't share all of your statements (and truly hope Lutz is not being accurate) but, overall, that's what I'm looking for too. I can almost not care if it were to go back to a GT500-fighter being called the SS but I just think it's important for GM to face Ford, and Dodge, directly, on all fronts. I mean they've raised the bar so high with the LS/LT and the SS, the competition isn't even funny (unless you have a Track Pack GT). Unfortunately, I do have a problem with a Z28 having less power than an SS, and though I think I can look past a FI V6 or I-4, I still prefer a V8. I am still not convenced that GM should start over on the Z28 (assuming
there was any truth to the LSA rumors) and go with those smaller/lighter engines; I just don't think the physics will pay-off (I'm no engineer though). I DO think there needs to be a Z28, period; I just also think we need to match Ford and Dodge on all fronts, and whoop-up on them.

JMVHO.

Punk' -

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Sorry but there is nothing I can do....

Hey - I think it's great Camaro has reached France though

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

I highlighted something very wrong. . .the 69 Z28 302 motor dynoed at well over 500 hp. 2010 camaro most powerful production yea right. . .+ it's 426 for the manual.


no matter what either power/tq has to come up in the 4 and 6 bangers respectively or the weight has to come down. IF they are taking over the line up of the camaro. BUT GM can release a DI V8 with smaller displacement better fuel economy and produce the same power out put as the current 6.2. if I remember a modified l92 with DI was putting close to 500 hp down and that was just a modified gen 4 motor. with all the refinements that could come with a gen V motor we could see more power from a 6.0-5.7 liter blocks and better fuel economy to boot. the end of the V-8 is far from here.

I know I remember seeing that somewhere, however, and not to be argumentative, but weren't their dyno' testing procedures different then too though?... I mean, didn't they sometimes run with no accessories, headers, definately no OEM exhaust, air cleaner, etc.? Let alone the calibrations and how widely different it seemed like they were among the different manufacturers? Again, I'm always open to learning; just curious My point is, that if I'm even close to being correct, I wonder what the results would be if someone took an LS3 and a DZ engine, and tested them under the same conditions, who would come out on top?... THAT - would be a test

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Well...he was partially responsible for the Camaro in the first place. His choices regarding the Z28 are with the companies best interests at heart.

Well...I'm waiting, too! :(

Good points. I hope he's just feeding some lines and not going to leave us "mines bigger than yours"-minded people out in the cold I'm waiting too. I'd just like to be able to get to 550+ RWHP and remain "smog-legal"

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I know I remember seeing that somewhere, however, and not to be argumentative, but weren't their dyno' testing procedures different then too though?... I mean, didn't they sometimes run with no accessories, headers, definately no OEM exhaust, air cleaner, etc.? Let alone the calibrations and how widely different it seemed like they were among the different manufacturers? Again, I'm always open to learning; just curious My point is, that if I'm even close to being correct, I wonder what the results would be if someone took an LS3 and a DZ engine, and tested them under the same conditions, who would come out on top?... THAT - would be a test

I know they rated them with out accessories as for the other stuff never heard that. wouldn't doubt private shops would do that but I've read and heard it on more then one occasion from different sources that this (500+hp) is the case.