Will a 100 shot be safe?

[CC Performance]

A colorless, sweet-tasting gas, N2O, used as a mild anesthetic in dentistry and surgery. Websters definition but in this case its being used as fuel or fuel enhancement or power adder.

[hot ss]

yes, fuel enhancement i think is best fitting.....except auto grade naws has sulpher in it, so the ricer babies dont huff the stuff. lmfao.

[SRT10KLLR]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

ok that was pretty funny... look I dont want to argue and I dont appreciate the attack on my business... I'm here to try and help some people from making mistakes, it cost me money to sponsor on here and I only offer cetain things for a reason... You seriously dont know what a person means when they say FI? Its Forced Induction... supercharger or turbo.. Nitrous is a fuel.. they are two different animals
The charge or "air" coming from a s/c or turbo is very hot ... nitrous is very very cold.. there is a total difference.

Originally Posted by hot ss

geez here i thought nitrous was an oxident. did i spell it right?

I also thought N2O was an oxidizer not a fuel.

I added nitrous to the Camaro a year ago and have been running a 200 shot safely. The car makes +460 rwhp / +460 tq all motor and +640 rwhp / +800 tq on a 200 shot. Best time so far was a 10.9 on the spray.

BTW, the nitrous tune has 10 degrees less timing than the all motor tune. Nitrous manufacturers/dealers all recommend you pull 2 degrees per 50 shot to start with then adjust to your specific combo.

[CC Performance]

Originally Posted by C586

+1

Tell that to the guy I just sold an LSX 427 built for boost to
He's looking to make 900 rwhp.. guess I dont know what I am doing huh.
Did you have anything to add to the n2o discussion ? Some real world experience?

[CC Performance]

Originally Posted by SRT10KLLR

BTW, the nitrous tune has 10 degrees less timing than the all motor tune. Nitrous manufacturers/dealers all recommend you pull 2 degrees per 50 shot to start with then adjust to your specific combo.

Thats called the conservative tune that I mentioned a few times. I've never run a device to do it, just had it tuned that way and we did not run 10* less timing it was 28* and there was never an issue. He's talking about a 100 shot... have it tuned right and there is no trouble... a little conservative never hurt anyone even on pump gas without nitrous.. I don't like detonation at all, I don't ever want to see anything on my knock counts so my tune is conservative already... you just don't know what your getting in pump gas.

Maybe others don't think the same way and so the difference. I'd rather give up 3 hp than run on the edge. I could hit my car with a 100 shot right now and not have to worry about a thing. I also run heat range 7 plugs ( colder)

The is more than one way to do something and we're talking about a 100 shot

[danhr]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

ok that was pretty funny... look I dont want to argue and I dont appreciate the attack on my business... I'm here to try and help some people from making mistakes, it cost me money to sponsor on here and I only offer cetain things for a reason... You seriously dont know what a person means when they say FI? Its Forced Induction... supercharger or turbo.. Nitrous is a fuel.. they are two different animals
The charge or "air" coming from a s/c or turbo is very hot ... nitrous is very very cold.. there is a total difference.

I know what fi is..... i was being sarcastic

But if you would like to make a legitamite debate about it....

You do and don't have to retard timing for nitrous. It depends on your tune. If it's setup for n/a or nitrous

MOST street cars run on a tune specifically for n/a... they tune their cars on the dyno for n/a and tune them again for nitrous. Now you've introduce nitrous oxide into the equation. Naaaaawwwwssss is an oxidizer, as mentioned before, and an accelerant. It accelerates the combustion process inside the cylinder. Regardless if it is hot or not (I see no reason why you are relating this to FI). Someone used this analogy in a conversation awhile ago and I thought it sit fit. Imagine an acetylene torch. Turn it on, without the oxygen going, and you get a low temperature slow burning flame. This is your motor N/A. Now kick the oxygen on (this would simulate the nitrous) and look at the flame go to a 2000 degree blue flame that's melting shit left and right.

Not that I gave that quick analogy for the n00bs, on to other things....

Now most tuners don't get so aggressive with the tuning that it's seeing knock here and there, but some push it to the limits. You don't know how aggressive the person who tuned the OP's car decided to be. For all we know there could be 33* of timing in his car.... or for all we know there could be 24* of timing. Seeing how the tuner probably didn't think the OP was going to spray the car, I'm willing to bet he went higher, rather than lower. The key point here is that YOU nor I know. and when in doubt, pull timing. You may like to risk it with your motor, since you build them for a living and have an endless supply of them, but I'm some blue collar redneck... I'd like my motor to last, thank you. Even if the tune isn't too aggressive, he still may hit detonation, because you are introducing an accelerant to the whole process. Each car's combination is different.

The general rule of thumb that is practiced by 99% of the people I know, is that you pull 2* of timing for every 50 hp worth of nitrous that is added. To start with. Only after that, do you put your car on the dyno, and if you decide you want to squeeze more power, do you add timing, by checking plugs/knock/afr/blahblhablah. You always start at the safest combination and work your way up. Never the other way around. When you tune a car, do you start at 35* of timing and work your way down or do you start at 20* of timing and work your way up (just a rule of thumb on that one, don't take it too literally).

Now most drag oriented cars don't even have a N/A tune. The tune they run on their car 24/7 is their nitrous tune with the timing already pulled out. For some, they don't mind doing that. Some, like myself, don't like that because whenever I'm driving around on the street, I'd like that extra few degrees of timing n/a.
i now have carpel tunnel

thanks

[CC Performance]

Originally Posted by hot ss

yes, fuel enhancement i think is best fitting.....except auto grade naws has sulpher in it, so the ricer babies dont huff the stuff. lmfao.

very true

[CC Performance]

Originally Posted by danhr

You do and don't have to retard timing for nitrous. It depends on your tune. If it's setup for n/a or nitrous

So you actually agree with me
There is more than one way to do something. Is it tomayto or tomahto ?

Frost also makes a dual flash ECU for this as well so you can have a street tune and track tune with the flip of a switch

I run conservative...knowing what detonation does to en engine I just cant help myself hahahaha I also dont run a lot of compression for FI where others do.

[SRT10KLLR]

I can run around with the nitrous tune also but I choose to maximize the hp on both nitrous and all motor. That requires the use of two tunes. One for all out NA and one for the nitrous. As others have stated there are devises out there that will pull timing only while spraying so you do not have to sacrifice anything when driving around town. I installed a switch so that when the nitrous is activated it uses a different timing table then when the car is off the nitrous. I haven't had time to dial it in thou so currently I just reflash the ECM if I know I am going to spray.

[CC Performance]

I'm not a fan of electrical devices.... I like to keep it simple.. the more points of failure you have the less dependable it is. SO maybe I'm old fashioned in that way but there is a solid logic to it. Simple is better. We see so many issue with these new cars and the electrical that I don't ever want to add another nuance to it. I realize that sometimes there is a need for it but I will avoid it as best I can.. I'd rather give up 3 ponies and know I'm safe no matter what.
Others feel different, no one is wrong.

[danhr]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

So you actually agree with me
There is more than one way to do something. Is it tomayto or tomahto ?

Frost also makes a dual flash ECU for this as well so you can have a street tune and track tune with the flip of a switch

I run conservative...knowing what detonation does to en engine I just cant help myself hahahaha I also dont run a lot of compression for FI where others do.

why would you need a dual flash ecu?

all you need is a resistor and a relay

wire up your relay to ground your IAT sensor. use the resistor so that your IAT's read something that your car will never see in real life (-260*F), and set the timing table for -260*F as your nitrous tune (WITH TIMING RETARDED) and leave the rest for n/a. flick the switch to power the relay and there's an instant nitrous tune

and no, i did not agree with you. you told the OP he does not need to take out timing, when you have no clue what his tune is like. That's about the worse advice one can give someone. You have no idea how much timing is in his tune or how aggressive the tuner was.

if you actually read what I said, instead of skimping through it, I said if his tuner already had nitrous in mind and took the timing out already, he could spray it, since the timing was already retarded for it.

pay attention to the original poster's situation more and less about trying to make yourself look right and you might look like less of a ....... mustang owner.....

and again, you are constantly bringing up the film industry for reasons that are beyond me....... was "Despicable Me" that moving of a film for you?

Either way, I guess I should run a 400 shot of nitrous though my pump gas motor with 29* of timing in it, because CC Performance said you do not need to pull timing for nitrous because it is a fuel, and not an accelerant.

[CC Performance]

No I told the OP to have it tuned properly for it. That means the timing would have already been pulled and there is no need to add another point of failure. I dont use timing devices if I dont have to and the difference between 31* and 28* is like 3hp wit an AFR 205 head so there is no real reason to use a device.. 3hp or less isnt making a difference to anyone

danr you just want to argue and think your funny at the same time.. I'm done with you. You want to add a device to run 28* go ahead, I'd rather just be safer and yeah I'm down 2-3 hp... big wooop.. I know I'll never have an issue... simple is better

I'm out of this thread... you experts have it covered...LOL

[SRT10KLLR]

Originally Posted by ColdCamaroSS

Some good information in this thread. I noticed on my ZEX kit, it states, no tuning is required for stock vehicles using a 75 shot. Since I have a conservative tune for 90 octane, I plan on using a 100 shot with 95+ octane. I've been told this shouldn't be a problem with my current tune by a variety of performance shops (most on this forum). Let's hope it works out..lol

Hot SS, how did you hook up your window switch and which window switch did you use? I'm about to buy the Zex model and use a MSD gmr on coil #1 for the RPM signal.

What they mean by a stock vehicle is a vehicle with a stock tune. You may be ok with only a 75 shot but like "danhr" suggested it is better to error on the side of safety and pull the recommended 2 degrees per 50 shot and then put it back it when you know it is safe.

When I was tuning for the 200 shot I started by pulling 12 degrees and began adding timing back in slowly. My brother and I went to an isolated(somewhat) road and would make a run while logging(HPT) the run including a wideband A/F. After every run we would pull the number 7 plug(since LSX motors seem to run hotter on #7) and check it and adjust out timing and/or fuel accordingly.

[danhr]

what's the difference of me being funny than of you flamming other vendors and bringing forced induction into a nitrous thread?

all of off topic and retarded

sounds like someone likes to dish it out but can't take it

and i guess if you consider a reistor and a relay a fancy "device" then hell... i'd hate to see you with a progressive nitrous controller. lol.