Death of the New Z28 Camaro

[stovt001]

Well Ford dealers were taking markups on the GT500 until recently, (if not still taking them) so if GM makes it limited enough it won't hurt CAFE numbers and will be a nice token to dealers and enthusiasts.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

speed costs money, I guess.

speed does cost money.... how fast you wanna go?

[Mr. Wyndham]

grrrrr...








But if there's nothing else to say about it....the thread can be closed.

PS, I don't believe it for a second. Frankly, the only execs that I would think have enough pull to "sign the death warrant" are Lutz, Wagoner, or Welburn......none of which could I imagine in 1,000,000 years be classified as "hating the Camaro".

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

If people didn't force the company with their buying habits to make this a priority then why is the gov forcing it upon it's people? sounds like big brother to me. I don't know what's best for me so the gov is telling me what is best for me. sorry the gov stepped in where it shouldn't have IMHO.

I agree. Government should be less involved, but I've been playing a lot of devil's advocate recently and I'll continue the trend here with a philosophical breakdown of government.

• Assume that the primary goal of government, according to just about every known Enlightenment thinker, is to fulfill a social contract with citizens.
• Given this assumption, we must also consider that liberal democracies (basically, democracies with elections, changing governments, parties, separate powers for the judiciary, free assembly, and free speech) tend to be socially active since the Great Depression—FDR set a major precedent here.
• Socially active governments seek out the best interests of citizens. This is proven by having such laws as mandatory seat belts, speed limits, safety at work laws, and minimum wage laws. Basically, the government seeks to protect citizens' safety, property, and livelihood.
• Finally, with a pluralist system, as is inherent in all liberal democracies, ideas flow freely. Fears of an ice age brought on by nature are running rampant. This idea flows freely to the government. To make it worse, hippies are screaming about pollution making the coming ice age, a natural phenomenon, more potent that the last one.

In this case, what does the government do? Of course, it must protect citizens to the best of its ability. While usually listening to hippies is not as groovy as they'd like, it might save lives and property in the coming years by preventing the premature melting of ice caps that will lead to extensive flooding, killing millions of people, and destroying billions of dollars of private and public property, if the hippies are right. If the hippies are right, the government must step in to fulfill its social contract with its citizens, and that means protecting property. If the hippies are right, our grandchildren will not forgive the government for not stepping in, and thus may lead to drastic political instability brought on by a combination of low faith in democracy and many natural disasters.

On the flip-side, if the hippies are wrong, we have companies that can produce competitive cars that go 36 miles per gallon. Companies will seek out performance, even in the worst circumstances. That means that Chevy will try to build efficient muscle cars and trucks. Is that so bad?

I'm sure we can all put up with higher efficiency. I'm sure GM will make some breakthroughs. Even if they don't, some dude with an old Mustang gave it 400 horses and tuned it to 110 miles per gallon. Stop worrying about fuel regulations. I promise you, our beloved performance cars will be okay.

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I gotta agree. I prefer the market to dictate the decisions companies make, not a government that "knows better than us". With gas prices the way they are, the average car buyer has plenty of motivation to buy more efficient cars, and the manufacturers have more than enough incentive to meet that demand. Honda's lineup hasn't changed since the new CAFE laws were introduced, and they're selling cars faster than they can make them. If the automakers care about sales (which they do) then they'll do their best to have similar lineups to meet that profitable demand. At the same time, they'll recognize the demand from people like me and many other people here. We're willing to pay more for gas/find alternatives for daily commutes in order to have a faster, funner car. CAFE regulations screw us just to accomplish what the free market would otherwise accomplish.

amen

[Moose]

Remember these words, "Have Faith"!

[stovt001]

Dragon, respectfully, I think a CAFE discussion is relavent, because if the Z28 were to be canceled it would be because of CAFE most likely.

But you're dead on correct with the rest of your post, in my opinion. As I said, no one who could single-handedly kill the Camaro would. I'm sure some semi-high level exec would like to, but whoever it is doesn't have that power. As I said in my first post, I'm sure this is just some rumor or misunderstanding passed on by a lower level employee. Still, I wouldn't complain if Fbodfather could come and put us all at ease.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Dragon, respectfully, I think a CAFE discussion is relavent, because if the Z28 were to be canceled it would be because of CAFE most likely.

Yes it is. But not everywhere...that was my point. Put across pretty poorly, I guess.

There is a sad part to this, given what's out there, and the possibilities of action that could be taken...I can at best put this in a wait-and-see category. I wish we could just dismiss it.:(

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

Democrat, Republican, whatever. I think Principal Skinner said it best when he said "There's no justice like angry mob justice". Power to the people and so forth.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Moose

Remember these words, "Have Faith"!

i thought it was "keep the faith"???

[Moose]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

i thought it was "keep the faith"???

Ya' get my point!

[fbodfather]

Articles like this really put me up the wall -- past the pictures -- and on to the ceiling.

The Camaro is not Dead.

(......in my opinion, there are some 'enthusiasts' that hope it does die -- and that confounds me........not to mention giving a dangerous boost to my blood pressure......)

I don't know how these things get life -- but let me assure EVERYONE -- that every car and truck program out there is on the table right now -- and I think I can safely say that this is the case at the other two American manufacturers -- all one has to do is to look at what's happening to new vehicle sales -- coupled with the housing meltdown -- the budget deficit -- the elections -- the Dow Jones Industrials down by a breathtaking amount -- and of course, high energy costs that are forcing the price of everything upward................


Let us take a quick walk down memory lane - shall we?

The year is 1979 -- interest rates are double digit -- energy costs and inflation are spiraling out of control.......people are "upside down" on their loans for pickups and large cars................







.....................and yet Chevrolet somehow sold 282,000 Camaros -- TEN years into a lifecycle.

Yes -- the times are different -- but I'm betting that when people see the production car -- they see the value that the car offers -- and they see the fuel economy -- we'll sell a lot of 'em.


........I said a long time ago "Have Faith" -- and that's what I'm saying once again.

(Edit: I am not saying that Jim didn't get a call -- what I DON'T know is WHO made the call -- if it makes you feel better -- go ahead and write a note as the magazine suggests you do.....)

(have faith, friends!)

[stovt001]

And THERE IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can go to bed happy now.

The man speaks the truth. History is our friend, and it guides us well.

[lafountain]

Thanks for the settling remarks.